Setting a Date to Withdraw Coalition Troops from Iraq

Felix_Nietsche · #1 06-24-2005, 07:25 PM

I'm for setting a date for withdrawing US soldiers from Iraq.
I think 12-24 months after the ratification of the Iraqi constitution is plenty of time. This will roughly occur at the end of the Bush43 administration and perhaps into the next administration.

I know the admin says giving a deadline will embolden the insurgents. No one can prove whether this is true or not. I do think a public deadline will light a fire under the average Iraqi who does not want to live in an Islamic-Fascist regime and encourage them to support the new govt.

We can't hold their hands forever. If the govt should fall and Iraq slip into civil war then the USA can send support to the Kurds. A Kurdish dictatorship is better than an Al-Qaeda regime.

ptmusic · #2 06-24-2005, 07:36 PM

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I'm for setting a date for withdrawing US soldiers from Iraq.

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Despite the wackiness you usually type, keep writing sentences like the one above and I'll go to that 2+2 cabinet thread and recommend you.

-ptmusic

Greg J · #3 06-24-2005, 08:30 PM

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We can't hold their hands forever. If the govt should fall and Iraq slip into civil war then the USA can send support to the Kurds. A Kurdish dictatorship is better than an Al-Qaeda regime.

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The one thing that heartens me about Bush is when he says that we cannot set a timetable to leave Iraq. Not b/c it would "hearten the insurgents," but b/c things are obviously not going well enough, and we have not reformed the Iraqis to the point that they can handle democracy. It took us DECADES in Japan and Germany, and will likely take longer in Iraq since we have much more potential for ethnic violence.

The main reason: pulling out will be based on the disengenous argument that we have done them a favor by invading. "We took away Saddam, and that should be enough." Please!

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We can't hold their hands forever.

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God this is immoral, especially if you supported the invasion. I am not trying to say you, Felix, are an immoral person, but I hope you would rethink the morality of this position. We interfered with their self determination, remember? That, IMO, oblidges us to take care of the people of Iraq for as long as it takes for them to be stable and respect basic human rights. It is what I expect from my country. We are the United States, a great country, and we should live up to our moral obligations. Meanwhile -- and I say this as a liberal Democrat -- I am thankful that President Bush at least has the moral conviction to follow through on his obligations.

I didn't agree with the invasion. But that is irrelevant now. By invading, we made a commitment to Iraqis. If we abandon Iraq, it will be one of the great moral failures of this country. We are better than that (I hope).

Felix_Nietsche · #4 06-24-2005, 09:57 PM

Quote:
We can't hold their hands forever.

God this is immoral, especially if you supported the invasion.
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Immoral is not a word I would use...
Anyway....***IF*** the USA left 3 months after the invasion then this would be bad because it would almost guarantee a civil war and thousands of deaths.

But it hasn't been 3 months has it? On the time table I proposed, US soldiers would have been in Iraq for 7 years before troop reductions began. Meanwhile the Iraqis have a new govt, a constitution, billions of dollars in aid, rebuilt roads/sewer systems/schools/Police Force/Army.

I think you're underestimating the USA and the Iraqis.

shots · #5 06-25-2005, 10:34 AM

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I'm for setting a date for withdrawing US soldiers from Iraq.

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Well it worked so well in Vietnam why not try it again.

lehighguy · #6 06-25-2005, 10:48 AM

It's interesting, I have two good Vietnamese friends in my dorm. One said to me once that he really wishes we had won the war. He thinks that if people had realized how shitty communism was, and how shitty the country would end up becomming, then they wouldn't have fought so hard. All they saw was the foriegn invader and getting him out, they didn't stop to think who they were fighting to put in power.

This is not to say he liked the war, or the Americans. It's this wierd dual posistion where he hates the foriegner and the things he did but can't help but analyze after the fact that it would have been better for his people if his people had lost.

ACPlayer · #7 06-25-2005, 11:09 AM

It seems that your Vietnamese friends dont quite understand the history of VN.

Anyway, I spent an absolutely delightful year last year in Vietnam (well seven months). Sai Gon is a bustling bee hive of entrepreneurial spirit. As Asian countries go it is vibrant active and yet still maintains the old world style. As Asian countries go, it is not particularly poorer than most and better off than others.

It does have some interesting communist idiosyncracies (like the official news broadcast on loud speakers twice a day). Otherwise, I would not have thought I was living in a communist run country.

Your friends need to better understand their country. Perhaps if they travelled into Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, Indonesia and some of the other Asian countries they would realize that VN is not a "shitty" country.

Felix_Nietsche · #8 06-25-2005, 12:55 PM

Sai Gon is a bustling bee hive of entrepreneurial spirit. As Asian countries go it is vibrant active and yet still maintains the old world style. As Asian countries go, it is not particularly poorer than most and better off than others.
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Saigon has become a "bustling bee hive of entrepreneurial spirit" because the the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s showed them that communism was an economic failure. The economic improvement that has been occuring in Vietnam has been because they are moving away from communism.

Your year in Vietnam would not have been so delightful in the years where the communists were on murdering spree of political dissidents.

Felix_Nietsche · #9 06-25-2005, 01:05 PM

Well it worked so well in Vietnam why not try it again.
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I'm calling bull**** on this.
Please provide a link supporting this.

wacki · #10 06-25-2005, 01:19 PM

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I'm for setting a date for withdrawing US soldiers from Iraq.

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I'm going to play poker tonight. I am going to play for 8 hours nonstop. If the table is really tight and I'm losing my shirt I'm still going to play. If I'm tired and my concentration is shot to the point where I can't remember who raised preflop, I'm still going to play. If somebody sits down who is the biggest fish in the world and wants to raise the stakes at 7 hours and 59 minutes I'm not going to play. Assessing the situation is for morons. Setting a deadline and sticking with it is the smart way to live. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]