Argh...How do I know when to milk it and when to bet big?

Colombo · #1 06-22-2005, 05:49 PM

How do you guys like my flop bet here? Is it terribly weak, or is it a good bet for my hand. Also, I know preflop is marginal, but the table was playing tight and I figured I could take the blinds.
This hand bothers me as I went from 21st out of 150 or so to bust.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (8 handed) converter

BB (t3450)
UTG (t4495)
Hero (t8420)
MP1 (t3410)
MP2 (t7766)
CO (t9750)
Button (t7515)
SB (t7309)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to t600, 2 folds, CO calls t600, 3 folds.

Flop: (t1375) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t600, CO calls t600.

Turn: (t2575) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets t1800, Hero raises to t4200, CO raises to t8525, Hero calls t2995 (All-In).

River: (t18295) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t18295

DemonDeac · #2 06-22-2005, 05:56 PM

i think preflop and flop is fine, based on read of tight table
i would lead the turn for about 1000-1200 as a probe bet (tight table and this guy called ur flop bet) and see what happens there. i think this will help u find a way to fold possibly

Jernej Zorec · #3 06-22-2005, 06:04 PM

i would make pot sized bet on flop,
if he calls u can put him on a set most likely considering he called pre-flop and it would be easier to determine how to play later in hand

Colombo · #4 06-22-2005, 06:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i would make pot sized bet on flop,
if he calls u can put him on a set most likely considering he called pre-flop and it would be easier to determine how to play later in hand

[/ QUOTE ]
But then wouldnt i be scaring away hands like A10, JJ-QQ, maybe some lower pocketS?

DemonDeac · #5 06-22-2005, 06:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i would make pot sized bet on flop,
if he calls u can put him on a set most likely considering he called pre-flop and it would be easier to determine how to play later in hand

[/ QUOTE ]
But then wouldnt i be scaring away hands like A10, JJ-QQ, maybe some lower pocketS?

[/ QUOTE ]

yea, which is why u shouldn't bet the pot on the flop

edited for typo

Colombo · #6 06-22-2005, 06:15 PM

But dont i want those hands to come along?

DemonDeac · #7 06-22-2005, 06:19 PM

typo
should say shouldnt, not shoulds

pineapple888 · #8 06-22-2005, 06:29 PM

Two pair isn't the nuts, and you shouldn't be thinking in terms of "milking" it. There's plenty of play left in this hand.

Your post-flop bet is weakish but not awful. It's close enough to half the pot that a call should indicate a drawing hand.

The only drawing hand with this flop is QJ.

So when a 9 falls, what the heck are you doing putting any more money in, esp. against the big stack?

Colombo · #9 06-22-2005, 06:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Two pair isn't the nuts, and you shouldn't be thinking in terms of "milking" it. There's plenty of play left in this hand.

Your post-flop bet is weakish but not awful. It's close enough to half the pot that a call should indicate a drawing hand.

The only drawing hand with this flop is QJ.

So when a 9 falls, what the heck are you doing putting any more money in, esp. against the big stack?

[/ QUOTE ]

Which leads to the turn...
I figured a Check raise would be good here to try to represent a continuation bet on the flop. Many people will call that flop with nothing or a pair of 10s etc just to see if i will let up on the turn. His bet didnt mean much to me, and i went in for the raise. When he pushes, im pretty much committed, and im getting 6-1 on my money. So i have to call there.

Maybe i should be focusing on my turn play here and not my flop play?

nath · #10 06-22-2005, 06:59 PM

Bet more on the flop. You gave QJ the right price to stay in and outdraw you. You can't always worry about that, but there's no reason to get cute with the guy who can bust you.
Two pair is not unbeatable.

I don't understand your turn line. Did you consider what your opponent might have had to call your flop bet? Even a weak flop bet won't be called with nothing. The problem with the check-raise is exactly what happened; you got set in by a hand that was beating you and felt committed. The "trying to represent a continuation bet" is FPS at its worst.

Make a flop bet that charges QJ the right price-- say 1200-- then let up if a scare card falls on the turn, otherwise hammer away again.