"the table has an edge against you"

[dark_horse]

i have a friend who i play hold'em with on a regular basis who was steaming last week because of all the nasty outdraws he had been experiencing lately (i promise this friend is real). his argument was that even though you may have the best hand with a hypothetical field of say 5 playeres in the pot before all the cards are out (let's say on the flop), collectively they have an edge against you because of all the outdraw possibilities. i tell him that the swings are greater because of the loose play, but over an infinite number of hands you come out on top. but he was just too mad to listen to me. i understand the concept of pot equity, that when you have the table beat before all the cards are out, you have more equity than anyone else. so what do i tell my blabbering friend who doesn't believe in playing in weak games anymore, besides "no problem, more for me?"

[Chairman Wood]

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so what do i tell my blabbering friend who doesn't believe in playing in weak games anymore, besides "no problem, more for me?"

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To go kill himself

[dark_horse]

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so what do i tell my blabbering friend who doesn't believe in playing in weak games anymore, besides "no problem, more for me?"

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To go kill himself

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Dude, if my friend were suicidal, I'd say that was pretty f-ed up right there.

[Chairman Wood]

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Dude, if my friend were suicidal, I'd say that was pretty f-ed up right there.




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I think it's pretty f-ed up that after 7 months and 300+ posts you even ask a question like this.

[dark_horse]

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Dude, if my friend were suicidal, I'd say that was pretty f-ed up right there.




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I think it's pretty f-ed up that after 7 months and 300+ posts you even ask a question like this.

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You know what man, I was kidding in my last post, but now I'm not. F you. I wanted to hear some discussion on the topic. Go back into your world of improving your self esteem by insulting people on 2+2 of all places.

[einbert]

Tell him to go play in tough games. I'm sure he'd do just fine at Pokerstars 100/200.

[Nick C]

Having, say, 25 percent preflop equity in a 5-handed pot is generally a good thing.

Probably there are a few complicated exceptions, where you're stuck paying off until the river and your opponents will only hang around if they catch and thus collectively have implied odds against you.

But I like having a preflop edge, generally.

Anyway, what your friend is talking about sounds sort of like the horse race concept, which I believe applies more to stud (since 7CSFAP is the book I know it from), where you currently have the best hand, but the combined draws that are out against you actually make you an equity underdog.

It's not as easy for draws to be independent of each other in Hold 'Em as it is in a game like stud, though.

[shant]

There's not much to discuss here. You already said it all. If your friend can't grasp the "long run" concept then there's no convincing him.

[dark_horse]

thanks nick. is this idea of being ahead against each person individually but not the table collectively a dumb thing to bring up? i apologize if it is but it's something that i haven't read about on here before.

[donger]

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Tell him to go play in tough games. I'm sure he'd do just fine at Pokerstars 100/200.

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They'd 'respect his raises' there. We all know that finding a table where this happens is the key to winning poker.