TT in BB

27offsooot · #1 06-22-2005, 12:16 AM

My question is regarding the turn. What's the best line here? c/c, c/r, b/c?

Villain in this hand is 35/10/1.5 or thereabouts. One post-flop read I had on villain is that he did not value bet an overpair when an innocuous bd flush card came on the river OOP.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 raises, 2 folds, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (9 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises

My plan was to call a three bet and fold the river UI and bet any river except a Q/7 (c/call) if he calls the c/r.

chief444 · #2 06-22-2005, 12:36 AM

Sounds like a good plan to me.

Brunger · #3 06-22-2005, 12:38 AM

That is an interesting turn and I think that I would check and call but I am confused. I would definately 3-bet the flop and lead the turn. That was a good flop for your hand. The reason I don't really like check raising is getting 3-bet sucks big time and it will happen alot I think.
How about just betting out that way we only lose 2 bets when behind and can get to showdown for 3. Also can check raise on river when improved the only downside is we lose some value from 2pair TPTK types hands but they might fold anyway,or check behind, so I vote for b/c. But we also take away the chance that they could check behind with AK.

mister · #4 06-22-2005, 12:51 AM

I hate these hands because often I don't even consider the T an out anymore. I go into call down mode, is this wrong ? I guess betting and calling a raise (with a chance for the board to pair on the river) seems like a decent line.

Paxosmotic · #5 06-22-2005, 01:29 AM

Probably have to check and call. That card was a disaster for your hand on this board. You still have 10 outs to what will almost certainly be the best hand, and he could be way too excited about AJs or AA-KK, but if he's holding QQ like I suspect, your trips just gave him a straight. Call down without one of your 10 outs hitting.

27offsooot · #6 06-22-2005, 08:42 AM

I was having trouble putting villain on a Q given his flop raise. I guess he could've been doing it with AQ/KQ, but I just wasn't giving him credit for not having a pair, so I thought about QJ, but then thought it more likely he had 1. a lower set, or more likely AJ. That's why i c/red. I think b/c might be safest here given that the turn card might scare opponent into checking behind on the turn.

crunchy1 · #7 06-22-2005, 08:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My plan was to call a three bet and fold the river UI and bet any river except a Q/7 (c/call) if he calls the c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're already HU on the turn and Villian seems committed to a showdown. Personally, I'd much rather see a showdown for 2BBs than fold UI (UI = quite likely) on the river after putting in 3BBs on the turn.

27offsooot · #8 06-22-2005, 08:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My plan was to call a three bet and fold the river UI and bet any river except a Q/7 (c/call) if he calls the c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're already HU on the turn and Villian seems committed to a showdown. Personally, I'd much rather see a showdown for 2BBs than fold UI (UI = quite likely) on the river after putting in 3BBs on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given the previous hand, where he did not value bet AA on the river HU, I can't possibly see him three betting me with less than a straight. I understand getting to SD and all, but I would rather get the most out of this hand than see a SD when I know i'm beat. There is no way I would be good >10% on the river if he three bets the turn.

Lurkmaster Flex · #9 06-22-2005, 09:00 AM

I've been getting murdered lately value betting 4 straight boards so I'm prolly a little weak tight on this but I wanna show this down. I just c/c the turn and c/c the river unless a q or board pair comes then I c/r.

crunchy1 · #10 06-22-2005, 09:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Given the previous hand, where he did not value bet AA on the river HU, I can't possibly see him three betting me with less than a straight.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you're making a mistake basing your play on the play of one previous hand (possibly it's based on more than that but, your post only mentions this one time). Villian not value betting the AA river on a (the) previous hand could've been a mis-click or maybe he was scared of the board (which I don't know). Regardless - I don't feel that one hand example justifies playing any opponent a certain way.

FWIW - I think that statistically the 35/10/1.5-type players are the toughest of the bunch. The have reasonable aggression PF and post-flop which seems to target them as decent players (at least as far as decent 2/4 players go) yet, they play too many hands and this makes it difficult to narrow their hand ranges. I'm not saying that you should disregard value-betting but, I want to see showdowns against these kinds of players. In a decent sized pot, HU, with a 4-straight/2-flush on board I think it's +EV to sacrifice 1BB of value to see a to showdown.