TT 200NL Paradise

DcifrThs · #1 06-20-2005, 06:49 PM

ok, villian in this hand is TOTALLy unknown to me.

i am not a NL p layer but think i need to get reasonable at it and am taking a small break today from limit to get better and im starting small (no way im jumpgint into 3/6 or 5/10 or 10/20 blinds w/ my lack of ability here)

paradise poker 200nl max 1/2 blinds.

8 handed and i get dealt TsTh and raise to 8.

2 folds and villian (unknown) makes it 30 to go. heads up im out of position but i call the 22 more.

flop is 8c5s3c. i check and call his $35 bet. so now erhe is 130 in the pot. i have 90 left. the turn is a 6c.

i push.

comments? other lines? anything would be appreciated from a guy who is a limit player and needs to improve NL.

(ps, iwoudln't be likely to do this w/ QQ/JJ b/c the point of maybe getting JJ or QQ to fold when i have TT would be nullified since i beat them w/ a higher pocket pair...i also wanted to give him poor odds and was content to take this pot down now w/ my overpair...if he called, imo, i was quite likely beat)

-Barron

mythrilfox · #2 06-20-2005, 07:08 PM

Folding preflop makes this hand a hell of a lot easier to play. Especially against an unknown. Especially oop.

Turn push is confusing - are you trying to push him off a better hand or do you think you're ahead? Average 1/2 player is probably not folding JJ here, and definitely not QQ. Your only hope is that he has AK, but I imagine AK would have bet more on the flop. I like folding at nearly every opportunity in this hand.

punter11235 · #3 06-20-2005, 07:15 PM

Hello,

Welcome to NL forum. Its important to include stacksizes here [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. Assuming that they were about 200$ I think you should fold preflop.
Most people after making it 30$ preflop are married to the hand (its probably not so bad) so all you get is a chance for set.
Most weak Villains on Paradise have 1/2pot bet with overcards, potbet (or close) with overpair betting pattern. So if your villain is weak, you are probably winning here.

Best wishes

DcifrThs · #4 06-20-2005, 07:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hello,

Welcome to NL forum. Its important to include stacksizes here [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. Assuming that they were about 200$ I think you should fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, hehe...i used to post here when i first started and before i became a limit junky...but the years, all 2 of them, have made me horrible at NL, imo and i need to diversify. ive become competent at stud/omaha hi, and need to work on o8 ...my fav. non holdem type game is razz...love that game.

i figure if i learn NL holdem then eventually i can take on NL in the other games...but for now i probably suck at it.

[ QUOTE ]

Most people after making it 30$ preflop are married to the hand (its probably not so bad) so all you get is a chance for set.
Most weak Villains on Paradise have 1/2pot bet with overcards, potbet (or close) with overpair betting pattern. So if your villain is weak, you are probably winning here.

Best wishes

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks for the notes.

i think i played it pretty bad but just wanted tos ee what SOP was here.

so if i raise to 4x the bb and an unknown makes it 15x the bb i should fold hands like 99/TT...what about JJ in this spot? and what is your line if you have QQ/KK here...what about AA?

-Barron

BluffTHIS! · #5 06-20-2005, 07:34 PM

Read SS2 and Doyle's section on nl in which he says that if he raises with a medium pair and is reraised, his default position is to take no heat with it and fold, as the other posters advocated. Also on point was the poster's comment about stack sizes here, since by calling to 30 with a 200 stack, you are now not getting the correct implied odds to hit a set, and even if you do hit a set do not know if he will go broke with a higher overpair. Playing these types of situations with an overpair to a rag board out of position will be a money losing proposition against good players.

barongreenback · #6 06-21-2005, 05:16 AM

Funny hand TT. Its a strong hand but when reraised by most players it turns into 55. Could say the same about JJ and vs some players QQ. There is much more re-evalution of your hand in NL than limit because you don't have the situation of increasing pot odds to tie you in as the hand progresses.

Although I played NL+PL before limit, I found difficulties returning. Hammering the pot had just become too habitual from limit and I had to realize that my instincts weren't reliable. Most of the biggest improvements in my game have come from simply being more reluctant to put money in pot, esp. later in the hand. The trick is doing this without turning weak/tight and predictable.

James

Obie · #7 06-21-2005, 11:16 AM

Welcome. I have always enjoyed you posts in the Limit forum. Anyways, if he is an unknown to you, then you should be an unknown to him. In that case, he has no reason to think you are open raising from what appears to be either UTG or in very EP w/o at least AK or a large pair. His re-raise should be a from a hand that has you beat. With that in mind, a pre-flop fold is in order. I may have raised a bit more OOP pre-flop but is not what you were asking.

TheWorstPlayer · #8 06-21-2005, 11:44 AM

You should include stack sizes and positions. Were you in MP and he was on the BN, or were you in EP and he was in MP? These things matter. And you should fold preflop. And this is in the wrong forum.

DcifrThs · #9 06-21-2005, 01:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You should include stack sizes and positions. Were you in MP and he was on the BN, or were you in EP and he was in MP? These things matter. And you should fold preflop. And this is in the wrong forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

again, im sorry for the post, i wont do it again, i'll be in small stakes NL until im good enough to move up and up and so forth. at what point am i allowed to post here? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

-Barron

TheWorstPlayer · #10 06-21-2005, 01:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You should include stack sizes and positions. Were you in MP and he was on the BN, or were you in EP and he was in MP? These things matter. And you should fold preflop. And this is in the wrong forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

again, im sorry for the post, i wont do it again, i'll be in small stakes NL until im good enough to move up and up and so forth. at what point am i allowed to post here? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]
Just razzing you mostly (I really like your limit posts). I think the general idea is $400 stacks or so can be in Mid/High. Personally, I don't see why most NL400 hands shouldn't be posted in SSNL. There are plenty of posters there who play NL200/NL400. I think NL600+ should go to Mid/High, but that's just my personal view. What I've seen mentioned on here as the cutoff is NL400+.