Did I really bet?

[DesertCat]

Casino AZ, 6/12. Kill pot, I'm the killer in the small blind. With TT, I raise. Two limpers call. Flop A77.

I bet out. Big blind calls. Turn is a blank. I think. I reach into my castle of chips, and pull some chips off a chip tower, and start to count them the right of my chip stack in a sideways motion.

Big Blind immediately exclaims "I raise". I look at the dealer, we both have bewildered expression. "Did I bet?" I say.

She thinks about it and says yes, some of the table agrees. The raiser argues going for my chips is a bet. I didn't argue, paid the 12 chips and folded my tens. But it made me think, were they right?

I've seen many players reach into their stacks, pull chips out, and then check, sometimes tapping the felt with their chips in hand. What's the rule?

[The Armchair]

No, and call the floor next time.

[Percula]

No you did not. You should have called the floor. How many times have you seen someone grab a stack of chips, reach out and tap the felt for the check.

The key here is not having the chips in front of the cards if you want to get very technical about it, but considering the number of limit players at CA that beat the felt with a stack in the hand when checking, this nit doesnt have a leg to stand on. Next time call the floor and teach the nit the rules, the whole table will be happier for it.

[Photoc]

If you chips were in front of your cards and you cut them, it's be as soon as you cut them, but if they are behind or to the side, it is no way in hell a bet. I see players all the time cut to the side of their cards, clearly not in front, and other players try to call it a string raise or what not. If there is no betting line, the cards are the betting line. One time in a room with real BS rules, I pushed the cards about 3 inches forward with a chip cap on them, then cut out a bet and someone tried to call me for a string raise and the dealer is like...nope, he's behind his cards.

[TripleH68]

You must be sure not to move the chips in front of your cards.

Your opponent may have been shooting a little angle on you, as the dealer may call this a bet since your opponent "reacted."

I agree you should have called the floor.

I also never go to my chips unless I plan to bet to avoid these situations...

[DeuceKicker]

Definitely call the floor.

Many card rooms don't care if you grab chips and tap the felt with them, as long as you don't release them from your hand. Many consider any forward motion with them to be a bet. Many call it a bet if you bring them out past the cards (though I don't think this rule is all that common). Many call it a bet if you bring them out past a line drawn on the felt. But I've never heard of a place considering it a bet just because you grabbed your chips.

Even if you don't want to raise a stink about the guy running an angle on you, call the floor so you (and everyone else) will know exactly what constitutes a bet in that cardroom.

[Randy_Refeld]

A couple of notes on this thread. There is a lot of thinking that drawing a line on the table or having an imaginary line in front of a player's cards some how makes it easier to determine if something so a bet, this is far from the truth. It shifts the arguement to "did this cross the line" which there is no real way to rule on. It is hard to speculate on the internet as to what would be ruled in any particular situation. In limit there is no real reason to "assemble" a bet, in NL this clearly is not a bet. The most important part of decision making is finding what is fair. The floor attempt to determine if your cutting out chips made it appear you were betting, if this is the case it should be ruled a bet; however, if the player behind is a known angle shooter or if the floor feels he is shooring an angle here (a common angle is to "raise" before a player has finsihed their action to indice a check). By all means anytime you are unsure about somethign ask that the floor be called; dealers are not paid to make decisions and dealers are often wrong.

[canis582]

Sounds like a case of a regular making the rules.