Desperate cry for help at 10/20(schneids,gonores,sthieft,stripez)help

[Diesel]

I'm a winning 2.5BB/100 player at 5/10(50k+ hands) I took a 18K hands shot at 10/20 and had a terrible
300BB downswing. I would say at least 90BB was result of getting outplayed and 60BB of bad play
So, today I was back to 5/10 I immedialy felt the difference, you get paid off all the time,
people overplay thier hands all the time. At 10/20 I woulndt get action on anything except
when I raised K8o on the button then I would get 3-bet and have to fold on the flop. This would
happen again and again. I really dont know how some guys can play at 30vip/20pfr. I mean this people
hate when you try to steal them, they get agressive and try to do anything to make you fold
and when they 3bet you they put so much money on the pot now you have to show them the winner or they wont go away

While at 5/10 you raise with AJ get HU with a limper you bet he folds, its much easier to steal also
At the 10 game I'm constantly feeling that I need to hit the flop
I dont really know whats I need to do to ajust to this semi-maniacs. I'm defending the blinds very often
Sometimes I even make some questionable calss like(T5o HU against the SB)

I need help, I would like to play more hands and be more agressive but its really tough
These people wont fold I'm always feeling that I will need help from the deck or they will call me with anything

My stats are right now at
VIP 20.37
PFR 14.43
Attempt to Steal 28
Folded BB to Steal 60.20
Folded BB HU 53.41
Folded SB to Steal 83.22

BB/100 = -0.73

Went to Showdown - 37.44%(Too high?I might be paying off too much)
APF - 1.73
AF 0 2.38
Turn - 1.91
River 1.57
Total 1.94

17.4K hands

My SB defense is clearly where I have most trouble I'm running at -0.17 on the BB I'm at -0.16
I 3bet CO/BTN raises with A8o+ A5s+ KTo+ K8S+ but when they put three bets PF they just wont fold, if they have any
sort of gutshot they are going to the river and I'm out of postion and have to guess if they paired or not
and I end up paying off too much. If I flop an ace, of course, they have no problem folding. I could just be running
bad but I defend the same amount at 5/10 and I'm at -0.04 there, not sustainable but not horrible at least

I ran a filter of all the steal attempts and I'm at
0.42BB/hand and Win% 62.59% so this seems to be a part of my game its
working(is 0.42BB too little? or I should have MORE hands even tough they might avg less BB the net profit will be bigger?)I really would like to loosen up and steal more
yet I just cant find hands to do it. Do anyone could give an mini-chart that would
GUARANTEE me a 36+ ATSB and 24Vip 15PFR?
I believe I'm currently raising on the CO/button with JTo+ maybe 98s 44+, A6o, Q7s+, K6s+, A4s+. I just cant get past 23vip on 5/10 and on 10/20 I'm at even less since my confidence was destroyed.
Could any of you 30/22 guys out there show your hand selection per position?I'm going to have
to print something like that and FORCE myself to raise no matter how I dont feel like(sthief?). I believe that should help creating some action on my big hands which I'm having trouble with.

D.

[Silverback]

dont be ashamed, post under your usual forum ID

[ISF]

your went so showdown is fine for this game you need to call down a lot. It looks like your att to steal, and turn and river agg are a bit low.

I would guess you are getting bad beat a bit and have become gun shy and are missing value bets and +ev steals.

This game is profitable, but in a different way then the 5/10 you need to take advantage of the fact that the guy three betting you with K9 will call to the river with king high and value bet them to deth. And take advantage of the fact that they give way to much action on the turn and river by calling down more, and putting more bets with your non nut very strong hands.

[bds]

I had a similar experience when I made the move to $10/20 from $5/10. It really is a different game. I hired a respected poster as a coach, and it made a tremendous difference. I am now beating the $10/20 at a respectable rate. If you are interested, send me a private message and I'll share the info on who with you. It was very reasonable in terms of cost and worth much more than I paid.

[Grisgra]

You're playing 10/20 scared. You can't play it scared. No fear!

[sthief09]

first, take me out of the subject because I don't belong there. second, bump this up again in a few days, as a lot of people are in Vegas.



[ QUOTE ]
I'm a winning 2.5BB/100 player at 5/10(50k+ hands) I took a 18K hands shot at 10/20 and had a terrible
300BB downswing. I would say at least 90BB was result of getting outplayed and 60BB of bad play
So, today I was back to 5/10 I immedialy felt the difference, you get paid off all the time,
people overplay thier hands all the time. At 10/20 I woulndt get action on anything except
when I raised K8o on the button then I would get 3-bet and have to fold on the flop. This would
happen again and again. I really dont know how some guys can play at 30vip/20pfr. I mean this people
hate when you try to steal them, they get agressive and try to do anything to make you fold
and when they 3bet you they put so much money on the pot now you have to show them the winner or they wont go away

[/ QUOTE ]

first of all, 50k hands is not enough to know that you're really killing it for 2.5 bb/100. just thought that should be added.

secondly, if they're doing something that's giving you problems, make a counterstrategy. either cap more liberally to punish them for getting involved with you or start calling more. if you fold too much postflop it's an open ticket to resteal everytime against you.

[ QUOTE ]

While at 5/10 you raise with AJ get HU with a limper you bet he folds, its much easier to steal also
At the 10 game I'm constantly feeling that I need to hit the flop
I dont really know whats I need to do to ajust to this semi-maniacs. I'm defending the blinds very often
Sometimes I even make some questionable calss like(T5o HU against the SB)

[/ QUOTE ]

well, if you're having problems, you should probably tighten up from the blinds until you feel more comfortable. no reason to play more hands for the sake of playing more hands. I do think that opponents notice when you're running bad and will take more shots. so try changing tables if you lose a lot. that's what I do. in general I don't really get the feeling that they're playing back at me everytime.

[ QUOTE ]

I need help, I would like to play more hands and be more agressive but its really tough
These people wont fold I'm always feeling that I will need help from the deck or they will call me with anything

[/ QUOTE ]

in shorthanded poker you don't always need help from the deck. you just need your opponent to not get help.

[ QUOTE ]

My stats are right now at
VIP 20.37
PFR 14.43
Attempt to Steal 28
Folded BB to Steal 60.20
Folded BB HU 53.41
Folded SB to Steal 83.22

BB/100 = -0.73

Went to Showdown - 37.44%(Too high?I might be paying off too much)
APF - 1.73
AF 0 2.38
Turn - 1.91
River 1.57
Total 1.94

17.4K hands


[/ QUOTE ]

your game right now is definitely better suited for 5/10. you're very tight passive and that will win money at 5/10. I think you can start by stealing more liberally. your blind defense stats are ok until you're comfortable player more hands. your AF's are low. I don't know if you're scared to bluff or aren't getting full value from the idiots.


I would suggest staying at 5/10 where you're presumably comfortable and trying to find places to add more hands. you can take some shots at 10/20 but I wouldn't stick there until you feel like you're in control.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
I had a similar experience when I made the move to $10/20 from $5/10. It really is a different game. I hired a respected poster as a coach, and it made a tremendous difference. I am now beating the $10/20 at a respectable rate. If you are interested, send me a private message and I'll share the info on who with you. It was very reasonable in terms of cost and worth much more than I paid.

[/ QUOTE ]


may I ask who?

[Alobar]

speaking of vegas...how come you didnt go? I thought u were supposed to?

[mperich]

[ QUOTE ]
your AF's are low

[/ QUOTE ]

Mine are 2.57/1.86/1.40, although that could be because I am forced to call down with weak hands a lot due to my aggressive nature.

-Mike

[Victor]

you need to steal a lot more. you should raise more preflop also. these apply to your the 5-10 game as well. your aggro numbers are a little low too but thats not bad for the 10-20 since it is so aggro that you can profit from passive play. if your 5-10 numbers look like this, though, i would say they are way too low.

10-20 is hard and i have been crushed by it numerous times. the main change i made was reduce my tables to 2 (now i play 3) and really pay attention. by doing this i was able to crawl out of a 400bb hole and am actually crushing the game for .6bb now [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]. you cant really autopilot it like at 5-10 because there is mix of good players, aggro/tricky players and a few passives. at 5-10 nearly everyone is loose passive and i see a lag maybe once a session.

another suggestion, which i dont follow nearly well enough, is table selection. there are tons of good tables you just need to find them.

lastly, you gotta have some nerves to withstand dropping 1k in 100 hands and not tilt.