A continuation of one of QTip's hands

sweetjazz · #1 06-17-2005, 01:56 PM

This might not be too too interesting, but when you make a decision on a hand, it's important to have a sense of what you're going to do on later streets.

2. You hold A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the CO.

Folded to you and you raise. The BB 3 bets. You call.

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

BB bets, you call.

Turn: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

BB checks, you ...

Part A) Let's assume you check behind on the turn. River is the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. BB bets. You ? and why.

Part B) Let's assume you bet the turn and BB calls. River is the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. BB checks, you bet, BB raises. You ? and why.

EDIT: I should have mentioned this originally, but we're assuming that the BB is a thinking TAG.

crunchy1 · #2 06-17-2005, 02:00 PM

Part A) I call - pretty much because that was my plan in the OP

Part B) Call - There's too much chance that this is a bluff-c/r, a semi-bluff c/r from a weak Ace that's no expecting to chop (where ironically the 7 probably counterfeited BB's hand, not Hero's).

QTip · #3 06-17-2005, 02:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Part A) I call - pretty much because that was my plan in the OP

Part B) Call - There's too much chance that this is a bluff-c/r, a semi-bluff c/r from a weak Ace that's no expecting to chop (where ironically the 7 probably counterfeited BB's hand, not Hero's).

[/ QUOTE ]

I do the same.

sweetjazz · #4 06-17-2005, 02:18 PM

Well Part B is really easy in my opinion. You absolutely cannot fold, as the 7 counterfeits BB's kicker if he had a better ace. But you certainly can't raise here either, as you're probably splitting the pot at best. So this is an easy call.

As for Part A, I think it's close between calling and raising. The range of hands BB is betting on the river is much wider because of the turn check. He could easily be betting a K here or a medium PP. There's also not too many hands he can have that can beat you (now that the board has counterfeited an A with a better kicker). At the same time, can you confidently fold if he were to 3-bet a raise (or would he be pulling a GoT move trying to steal a split pot)? Would he raise with AK now that the board has paired backdoor? Also, how aggressively does BB defend steals? Does he semi-frequently 3-bet with hands like Kxs to take control of the hand? I'm also assuming that the BB is not folding any A to a river raise here (which would be a horrible play).

When I originally posted, I thought there was a better case for raising, but I agree now that calling is probably better. That said, it's important to realize that the river card may change your plan when you make a check behind play. Would a second K that completes a 2-flush on the flop merit a second check behind (assuming your opponent expects you to bet the second time when checked to and you know this)? There might also be a situation where a non-obvious card (i.e. doesn't match with one of your hole cards or complete a straight/flush draw for you) and it becomes best to raise, though I don't the example I gave in Part A is such a situation.

crunchy1 · #5 06-17-2005, 02:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
As for Part A, I think it's close between calling and raising.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think it's close at all. It might be a close decision on the river if you had bet the turn.

The point of checking the turn was to induce a bluff if you're ahead and lose the least if you're behind. Certainly raising the river doesn't fit into either of those two previous plans.

chief444 · #6 06-17-2005, 03:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
As for Part A, I think it's close between calling and raising. The range of hands BB is betting on the river is much wider because of the turn check. He could easily be betting a K here or a medium PP.

[/ QUOTE ]
How good is the thinking TAG? Because I think betting a medium PP on the river here is pretty damn bad. Not many worse hands call. Some worse hands may even bluff raise. Much better hands value raise. There just isn't much value in betting something like 55/66/88/99 here IMO.