What to do with flush draw?

[ihardlyknowher]

UTG is a TAG
MP is fairly tight and aggressive
Button is average

10 handed:
You are in the BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG open raises, MP and Button both cold call
Flop comes K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

What do you do?

[mantasm]

check and see, probably call

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you do?

[/ QUOTE ]

I check. I like the flop, but I'm pretty sure I'm drawing, and I don't want to bet and have UTG raise.

I don't think there's much of a chance that I can scare everyone away, and I'd prefer not to be heads-up with my draw, if I can help it.

[ihardlyknowher]

If UTG bets and the other 2 call, do you then raise for value?

[thirddan]

i think in a situation with this board and the aggressive players behind you, that a check/call is best here...with this board there are probably going to be at least 1-3 bets going in on the flop no matter what you do...

betting is bad cuz you will likely be isolated against a hand that is far superior to yours, and your pair outs are almost never good here...check/raising could be ok depending on if the other players call (likely) or raise, in the case of a raise i think i like coldcalling more than check/3betting (cuz you are asking to be isolated again)...

so i like check/calling and check/raising if you hit your draw...

[mute]

Check and then raise if UTG bets and both call. If only one calls a bet from UTG, I prefer to just call, since this is a pretty thin valueraise, and you give away your hand by raising the flop and checking the turn.

[thirddan]

this is definitely an option, and the added benefit of putting dead money into the pot if PFR 3bets, but this also diminishes the number of people that will pay you off if you hit your draw and can get in a c/r...since the players left to act are a TAG and unknown you don't know how they will react to having to face two bets cold if PFR 3bets, but if you knew that they would call two bets then i think c/ring could be a good plan...

[ihardlyknowher]

Thanks guys. This hand is actually in Inside the Poker Mind and I didn't quite get it. I wanted to bet the flop for value, but didn't consider that I would likely be isolated.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
If UTG bets and the other 2 call, do you then raise for value?

[/ QUOTE ]

I used to. Now I'm less inclined to.

Sure, the flush is going to come in by the river a little over a third of the time. But I can make my flush and still lose (especially on that board), and a checkraise could slow down later action if I do hit. I'd rather try to checkraise UTG on the turn after catching.

Also, checking the turn after checkraising the flop (which is what I would do if I missed) is sort of awkward, and if my opponents realize I might have a draw (and it sounds like these opponents might), they might pounce instead of worrying I'll checkraise again.

Another problem is that UTG might 3-bet a flop checkraise, which possibly would drive people away.

Anyway, though, I don't really have a problem with checkraising the flop versus three opponents. It's just something I've gotten away from, a little bit.

I would still do it if my draw were a little stronger. For instance, if I had a gutshot to go with my flush draw, or if I had the nut flush draw, or if the board wasn't full of broadway cards (and thus I wasn't as concerned about redraws), then I'd be more inclined to checkraise.

Edit: With the nut flush draw, I'd consider just leading the flop, actually (it might at least help clean up overcard outs if I get raised, for instance). But I wouldn't on that board.

[jjacky]

and what does the book recommend? check, call?