A pretty interesting hand - 88 in MP

Hojglad · #1 06-14-2005, 03:21 AM

So, I know this sounds fishy, but on the flop, I put the PF raiser on overcards. I figured there was no way I was getting anyone to fold on the flop, so I just called. The turn was a blank (but I could represent having it), so I called again, thinking I had the best hand, and intending to make a play for a huge pot on the river. At any rate, my river raise was precisely to represent trips so that top pair doesn't call. I was almost sure I had the bettor beat. Discuss how you would have played it differently. Comments on all streets are welcome.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 (poster) checks, 1 fold, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB raises, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (14 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, CO calls, Button folds.

Turn: (10 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG folds, MP1 folds, Hero calls, CO calls, SB folds.

River: (13 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB calls $2 (All-In), Hero raises, CO folds.

Final Pot: 16 BB

damaniac · #2 06-14-2005, 03:33 AM

I'd raise preflop, first off. Not mandatory, but I think a good idea with a poster and MP, a chance to get the button (depending on the game).

Can't fold the flop, can't fold anyone else, calling is fine. Have to raise that turn if you are going to keep playing though, you said yourself, big pot, why let CO and SB have a cheap chance to draw out on you? You give him just as good a chance to fold, and deny him a chance to improve if he is behind.

milesdyson · #3 06-14-2005, 03:34 AM

I would fold/raise the turn depending on BB and everyone else, but if I thought I had the best hand, I would raise the turn, because CO and SB are still behind you and combined could have as many 12 outs to beat you.

SoftcoreRevolt · #4 06-14-2005, 03:44 AM

I might be tempted to Limp Reraise this preflop, just since there's so many people involved that its almost worth it for your set equity, added to the fact that you may have the best hand. But probably not.

I like raising the turn more than raising the river. If we are putting a raise in this hand, I'd really like to do it now when people fishing for overcards will either fold, or put in the extra bets now because they are dumb. They won't call the river unimproved, so it seems like a better play on the turn to either get the extra bets in now, or get them to fold.

Hojglad · #5 06-14-2005, 03:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold/raise the turn depending on BB and everyone else, but if I thought I had the best hand, I would raise the turn, because CO and SB are still behind you and combined could have as many 12 outs to beat you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I like raising the turn. I might try that from now on in a situation like this. However, when I was actually playing the hand, I thought to myself about waiting for a relative blank on the river to raise and knock people behind me out. I was trying to represent something like A3s, and I figured this is pretty much the exact way that A3s would play it - the river raise, that is. I figured that there was no way that the cutoff calls with a 9 once I raise the river. In short, I completely neglected to think about trying to limit the field on the turn while I still might have had the best of it. This was probably a mistake.

Shillx · #6 06-14-2005, 03:45 AM

Gotta raise the turn dude. The flop call is 100% fine, but you need to raise the turn. I'll let others expand since I'm pretty busy at the moment.

Brad

Hojglad · #7 06-14-2005, 03:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I might be tempted to Limp Reraise this preflop

[/ QUOTE ]
I can't do this - I'm not Entity.

bottomset · #8 06-14-2005, 05:17 AM

well with 4ppl in for 2bets, I'd think about a LRR here

flop good
turn you really need to raise here, the pot's big, you have a reasonably good chance at still being best, and you'd really like to knock out the 2ppl behind you, who likely have overcards to your pair, increasing the chances of you taking the pot at showdown

not sure what the river action was though?

sholvar · #9 06-14-2005, 05:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So, I know this sounds fishy, but on the flop, I put the PF raiser on overcards. I figured there was no way I was getting anyone to fold on the flop, so I just called. The turn was a blank (but I could represent having it), so I called again, thinking I had the best hand, and intending to make a play for a huge pot on the river. At any rate, my river raise was precisely to represent trips so that top pair doesn't call. I was almost sure I had the bettor beat. Discuss how you would have played it differently. Comments on all streets are welcome.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 (poster) checks, 1 fold, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB raises, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (14 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls, CO calls, Button folds.

Turn: (10 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG folds, MP1 folds, Hero calls, CO calls, SB folds.

River: (13 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB calls $2 (All-In), Hero raises, CO folds.

Final Pot: 16 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

first i must say, that I didnt read the posts of the other guys because I wanted to form my own opinion. After my post I read the rest ^^
there are so many guys preflop calling cold this raise, I think that mistakes are huge enough to reraise here for more value. Your lone Problem here is MP1, but even if he is a tight player, he will raise with AJo or KJs or something like that. So you have a good chance to beat him with a good flop. with a bad flop like AKQo you can fold and not pay more on this guy, but on a flop like T32o you should be angry not to reraised preflop...

@flop:
SB is the preflopraiser. He has no position and only if he had raised with TT he has improved now.
here is a new situation, where you can raise.
-good chances against the bettor
-very big pot
- you are able to kick 2 persons out of this pot

@turn:
check of SB is IMO a tell for overcards. Now BB bets. He called all the other bets and raises, why he bets now? I think this you can not answer only by this hand history... some trackerinformations about that guy?
If he calls with a very big range of hands you can raise here, but if he only plays with good hands but very passive preflop and flop you can fold here. against 1 player with overcards and a player with 3oaK and 3 guys with random hands you will not win 5%.
call is a very bad desicion i think. You pay, but you do nothin to win the pot. he is big! Kick enemys or go out there!

@river: if you consider to play the turn, playing that river aggressively is a good desicion I think.

must go, cu guys ^^
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
shol

DeathDonkey · #10 06-14-2005, 09:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
so I called again, thinking I had the best hand

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and intending to make a play for a huge pot on the river

[/ QUOTE ]

This does not compute. If you think you have the best hand on the turn then a turn raise is beautiful. If you think (and this is a dangerous thought against clueless opponents) you may be able to get a better hand to fold by raising the river then you should go with that plan. It can't be both ways.

Also, you must have had something on the BB to make you think you were ahead of him right? I mean he has to be pretty bad to be betting a hand you can beat there, but if you say so.

You have received really good advice in this thread btw, though I dunno about the LRR either [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

-DeathDonkey