Keeping my head in check, poker philosophy

[J. Stew]

Hey all, first post here. . . some thoughts on becoming a better poker player. Holler if ya hear me.

Sitting in front of my computer playing poker is like being in my own world. I don’t have to look anybody in the face or worry about giving away a tell. I don’t have to talk to anybody if I don’t want. I can write practically whatever I want on the message board without getting punched. I am in my own world and you are in your own world. So what do you feel like when you’re playing? Does your heart pound when you’re in a big pot? Do you write sarcastic remarks after a bad beat? Do you feel powerful when you bully the blinds? Do you feel insecure when you’re being bullied? Do you hold a grudge against a player that beat you out of a pot and writes a cocky blurb about it? Have you played so many hands that you feel numb? What are the emotions that you experience throughout a session? Good players have an understanding of the proper plays to make, of course, but how many poker players understand the emotions which sometimes provoke them to a bad call/fold/raise? Now it’s not true to say that an emotion is the sole determinate of a play. The technical skills acquired from experience or learning, for the most part, dictate how a player acts. But to some degree most players are impacted by their emotions. This is obvious though, right? Some players are aggressive, some passive. . . some crazy. You see them playing a certain way which is a bit ‘off’ from the correct strategy of selected aggression and for that matter, selected passivity. That is how you ultimately beat them. You understand their deviation from the correct play and beat them by taking advantage of that knowledge. The fundamental theorem of poker and math like Bayes Theorem help you understand what the mathematically correct play is, but understanding the emotions which your opponent may be acting from will help you see how, why, and to what degree your opponent is swaying from ‘True North’. This is a subtle skill though and usually mature players are able to touch this intuition more directly than novice players. But where does this intuition come from? A mature player can spot an overaggressive player because he himself was once overaggressive and has since learned about when to be aggressive and when to get out. The mature player has learned from his past mistakes. In terms of technical poker skill, whether he identified where his over-aggression at the poker table stemmed from, like the need for control, or whatever, isn’t as important as the fact that he has since corrected his play. But in terms of having a stable mind, which is essential for keeping one’s emotions in check, it is grounding to have the understanding of why you make certain plays you know you shouldn’t make. For instance, why do you feel hesitant, then guilty when you call a raise on 5th st. when you know he’s got a flush? You feel hesitant because you know you shouldn’t call, yet you do, or at one time did, and now suddenly you feel guilty, a little annoyed, maybe even bitter. Does this emotion affect you in your next hand? Good players don’t let obvious bad beats affect them. Better players go deeper and work towards a more mechanical approach to the game, at least in terms of keeping emotions at bay. But is poker really enjoyable when you play like a machine? Is it worth it to spend part of your day ‘grinding it out’? If you need to feed yourself, yeah, but in the Big Picture, probably not. It seems then that some attitude or, maybe, ‘Middle Way’ of experiencing emotions while not attaching to them is the answer. Somewhere in between a leaf blowing in the wind and a rock seems like the right attitude to me. Regardless of poker philosophy though, the ability to understand what makes you act emotionally develops with introspection. The more you understand this process in yourself, the more you can understand others and what makes them tick. . . or check-raise. You should try it out . . . the next time you are about to get pissed after a suck out put yourself in check. See if you can figure out where your anger is coming from, or what your anger is for that matter. If you can figure that out I think it’s worth a bad beat or two.

[smartalecc5]

can u repost this in paragraph form, my head hurts just looking at it.

[autobet]

Ditto,
I wanted to read it as the topic sounded by far more interesting than most, but can't get past the fifth line.

[J. Stew]

Ok I'll repost, didn't know it would be so hard to read.

[J. Stew]

Hey all, first post here. . . some thoughts on becoming a better poker player. Holler if ya hear me.

Sitting in front of my computer playing poker is like being in my own world. I don’t have to look anybody in the face or worry about giving away a tell. I don’t have to talk to anybody if I don’t want. I can write practically whatever I like on the message board without getting punched. I am in my own world and you are in your own world.

So what do you feel like when you’re playing? Does your heart pound when you’re in a big pot? Do you write sarcastic remarks after a bad beat? Do you feel powerful when you bully the blinds? Do you feel insecure when you’re being bullied? Do you hold a grudge against a player that beat you out of a pot and writes a cocky blurb about it? Have you played so many hands you feel numb? What are the emotions that you experience throughout a session?

Good players have an understanding of the proper plays to make, of course, but how many poker players understand the emotions which sometimes provoke a bad call/fold/raise?

Now it’s not true to say that an emotion is the sole determinate of a play. The technical skills acquired from experience or learning, for the most part, dictate how a player acts. But to some degree most players are impacted by their emotions.

This is obvious though, right? Some players are aggressive, some passive. . . some crazy. You see them playing a certain way which is a bit ‘off’ from the correct strategy of selected aggression and for that matter, selected passivity. That is how you ultimately beat them. You understand their deviation from the correct play and beat them.

The fundamental theorem of poker and math like Bayes Theorem helps you understand what the mathematically correct play is, but understanding the emotions which your opponent may be acting from will help you see how, why, and to what degree your opponent is swaying from ‘True North’.
This is a subtle skill though and usually mature players are able to touch this intuition more directly than novice players. But where does this intuition come from?

A mature player can spot an overaggressive player because he himself was once overaggressive and has since learned about when to be aggressive and when to get out. The key point is that the mature player learned from his past mistakes.

In terms of technical poker skill, whether he identified where his over-aggression at the poker table stemmed from, like the need for control, or whatever, isn’t as important as the fact that he has since corrected his play. But in terms of having a stable mind, which is essential for keeping one’s emotions in check, it is grounding to have the understanding of why you make certain plays you know you shouldn’t make. For instance, why do you feel hesitant, then guilty when you call a raise on 5th st. when you know he’s got a flush? You feel hesitant because you know you shouldn’t call, yet you do, or at one time did, and now suddenly you feel guilty, a little annoyed, maybe even bitter. Does this emotion affect you in your next hand?

Good players don’t let obvious bad beats affect them. Better players go deeper and work towards a more mechanical approach to the game, at least in terms of keeping emotions at bay.

But is poker really enjoyable when you play like a machine? Is it worth it to spend part of your day ‘grinding it out’? If you need to feed yourself, yeah, but in the Big Picture, probably not. It seems then that some attitude or, maybe, ‘Middle Way’ of experiencing emotions while not attaching to them is the answer. Somewhere in between a leaf blowing in the wind and a rock seems like the right attitude.

Regardless of poker philosophy though, the ability to understand what makes you act emotionally develops with introspection. The more you understand this process in yourself, the more you can understand others and what makes them tick. . . or check-raise. You should try it . . . the next time you are about to get pissed after a suck out put yourself in check. See if you can figure out where your anger is coming from, or what your anger is for that matter. If you can figure that out I think it’s worth a bad beat or two.

[avisco01]

I was able to read through it, though I now feel a little dizzy... I wish I knew where that anger comes from in the philosophical or psychological sense, but I think the anger is purely coming from the fact that I lost a huge pot to a 20-1 or worse shot. I'm one of those types that feels if I'm the favorite I should win, and its frustrating when the math, skill, whatever doesn't seem to matter and it boils down to simple luck. Of course, I've hit my fair share of long shot draws and sucked out plenty, so I'm not sure what to do to keep my emotions in check.

[J. Stew]

What made me think about it was that I noticed I was being angry away from the table, like at my girl or just at life because of a bad beat. I mean, it wasn't serious, but it was enough to put myself in check. Then I sort of figured out what the feeling was. I saw that it was just a believed thought that I should have won a pot or something cause I was the favorite. When I stopped believing in those thoughts my game became so much more clear. I think it was because I wasn't thinking/worrying about what had just happened and I was keeping up with the present moment.

[sghaba]

J. Stew,

Good post. You could even argue that playing poker is a wonderfull form of self-investigation, regardless of the outcome. It's an opportunity to see just how much you identify with a bad beat, a great win, a really stupid chase, etc. How much hope am I willing to cloud my perceptions? I'm just a beginner, as far a playing poker goes, and so far in most cases I can see where my best mistakes were emotionally driven. And yes, my heart pounds either way. Why is that? Mostly I don't take it personally . Anyway thanks for your post. Nice to see something other than the usual "how do I win..." posts.

sghaba

ps: please excuse the spelling (I'm left handed)

[sghaba]

And

why is my best play when I feel light, somewhat interested/disinterested...

and some of my worst play when I feel heavy, very interested/interested?

sghaba

[Xomby]

Great post, Stew.

I think you did a pretty good job at describing that "inner dialogue or battle" that goes on to some degree in all of us.

I've been playing poker for about 2 years now. I've got a couple of home games, a back room game, then hit the casinos in Louisiana whenever possible. So live I get about a game a week, or slightly less on average. Online, I play every single night. I know Online is what you are primarily discussing here.

What I've somehow figured out how to do, to avoid that "revenge raise" that I sometimes feel the urge to make, is pretty much erase from the front of my thoughts anything that has happened in the past. Now, I don't mean anything to do with my opponents play style, just hand to hand, I subconsciously "forget" my cards once they are no longer in play. I started this "trick" to solve for myself exactly what you were describing.

Now, I REALLY do not remember hands that I've folded. My wife likes to sit and watch me play a lot of the time and every once in a while she'll see a flop and then ask "what did you fold". I can't even see THOSE cards in my mind's eye.

As for those bad beats that come up from time to time, and those calls on the river when I KNOW the other guy probably has the nut flush, I pretty much utter one curse word under my breath and then I let it go. My view on it is this, I can get pissed and slam things on my desk, but those chips will still be gone. If I can't change the chips by being pissed off, it's a waste of my time and energy.

As for the OTHER emotional component to the game, the ups and downs, thrill of an all in after the flop, analysis of an opponents bet to make the fold / call / raise decision is still there. Heck, for most of us, I bet that's one of the reasons we play, that adrenaline rush we get waiting for the next card, or the euphoria on top of that adrenaline when we win!!