A really weird 5/10 hand

[DMBFan23]

Party Poker 5/10 6max, 6handed

Button is very loose, no read on MP.

I raise A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] UTG, MP and Button call. Blinds drop

Flop is 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
I check???, MP checks, Button checks and it's obvious he had "auto-check" clicked.

Turn is the 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
I bet, MP folds, Button calls

River is the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
I check, Button bets, I call

[ggbman]

Bet the flop. Since you checked and bet the turn, you should either check-fold the river or bet to try to get him off a 7 and prevent a bluff from Q-10 K-10 etc...

[spamuell]

bet to try to get him off a 7

If he's come this far with a 7, it's not happening.

and prevent a bluff from Q-10 K-10 etc...

Yes, far better to bet and have worse hands fold and better hands call than to check and have better and worse hands bet so you can call to beat a bluff.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
bet to try to get him off a 7

If he's come this far with a 7, it's not happening.

and prevent a bluff from Q-10 K-10 etc...

Yes, far better to bet and have worse hands fold and better hands call than to check and have better and worse hands bet so you can call to beat a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, the river play is perfect.

I think you should have bet the flop though.

[ggbman]

[ QUOTE ]
bet to try to get him off a 7

If he's come this far with a 7, it's not happening.

and prevent a bluff from Q-10 K-10 etc...

Yes, far better to bet and have worse hands fold and better hands call than to check and have better and worse hands bet so you can call to beat a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not nearly as clear cut as you make it. First of all, he didn't come far with a 7, he called 1 bet on the turn if that's what he hass. If he has something liek 79s, but maybe peel the turn and fold the river unimproved. He could also have 44, 55 etc... and believe that hero slowplayed a flopped set and decide to muck the river. We don't want to be calling bets on the river with Ace high on a co-ordinated baord given the action, and so i like betting just because this hand doesn't have much showdown value so you might as well try to get the few hands that beat you and will fold to do so for one extra bet.

[StellarWind]

Betting the river is awful. Hero obviously has unimproved high cards. This is an autocall for any pair by virtually any player. Furthermore this player is described as "very loose".

The best argument for betting the river is that worse aces are likely to call.

However this is overwhelmed by the many times that small pairs will give you the free showdown and save you a bet.

The coordinated nature of the board means that many worse hands may have reasonably called the turn. Plus Button is a very loose player which could add many unreasonable hands. Finally his failure to bet the flop suggests he does not have a made hand. With such a good chance of having the best hand we want to call a bet unless we are pretty certain he would not try a bluff. But our flop check is a strong inducement to bluff because it indicates weakness.

Clear check-call.

DMBFan23: It is very strange for the PFR/leader to checkcall the flop in a 3-way pot. If you willing to pay to see the turn you might as well bet your potential best hand. You tend to only get a free card when your hand is best. Your fold equity exceeds the risk of being raised.

[DMBFan23]

at the time, I thought a bet was bad because I couldn't get both of them to fold enough, and I thought I was behind too much.

but, betting may get one of them to fold a smaller pocket pair, and I'd rather have the lead against him as opposed to having to call his bets if that's the route I choose to take

since I'm definitely calling a bet with overcard + gutshot + possible best hand, not betting really only prevents me from getting raised, but it's just a flop raise so I'm not even THAT mad if I get raised.

checking also gives free cards to spades (I'm thinking something like As5s, or KsTc or whatever) and allows them to try and move me off on the turn if I don't improve.

Maybe I am behind, but it's important to bet if I'm ahead, and in the cases I am behind I have the protection of some semi-nut outs, lessening the penalty of betting when I am behind.

epiphany about semibluffing just hit me. cool deal

[DMBFan23]

yeah I was wondering about the flop bet. Lately I've been looking for spots where a continuation bet might not be the best play, and I thought this was one of them. I know I have a gutshot and A high, but wouldn't I rather get a free card here against opponents that would probably call? I'd definitely bet if the flop was J62 rainbow.

I came from full ring so I'm not sure if I'm failing to adjust, I'm thinking that if I opened from MP in a full game and got two coldcalls that it would be the same situation

I also have to admit that his auto-check kind of made me think I was more likely to have the best hand

[wheelz]

I'll take free cards in position, doesn't work so well when first to act

Just bet the durn flop

[DMBFan23]

I guess I should have said "likely cheaper card", but your point about betting is still well taken