A hand common to 10/20 that makes me want to pull my hair out

ctv1116 · #1 06-01-2005, 08:31 AM

Villian was playing 84/6 but decently aggressive postflop, as you will see. Villian up $1200 in the last 40 hands.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

River: (7.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

ctv1116 · #2 06-01-2005, 08:35 AM

I'll go ahead and post the results now, because I think my subject tone indicates that the player rivered a gutshot, but really my question was in regards to dealing with the bets from every angle/position. Villian had (results in white) T4o and my hand is not good.

pfkaok · #3 06-01-2005, 08:40 AM

I don't like the turn raise too much here, as your fold equity is near zero. against somebody this loose i think just calling down is probably best.

ctv1116 · #4 06-01-2005, 08:42 AM

value raise against a 6?

stigmata · #5 06-01-2005, 08:43 AM

If I'm going to raise I would normally do it on the flop. With such a drawsy-board it is difficult to fold. Nice river bet by the villain.

I think this was an unfortunate combination of ultra-drawsy board + good play by LAG villain.

Nate tha' Great · #6 06-01-2005, 08:46 AM

The turn raise is bad. The 9 doesn't serve as a scare card, he's probably got a strong draw or a better made hand on this board neither of which will fold, and getting 3-bet would suck since you probably need to call. Given that you did make the raiseo on the turn, I think you can save yourself the bet on the end. Only hopeless LAGs like me will try the desperation donkbet on the end after they've already been played back at.

BTW, one reason that the turn raise is bad is because this player will in fact have hands containing treys, fours and fives pretty often.

arkady · #7 06-01-2005, 10:14 AM

I am going to echo that sentiment and add that the previous flop raise suggestion is marginal at best. There is really no point in raising this for "value" against an opponent who a) will not fold b) has a piece + draw c) has draw.

You either decide to fold on a scare card (whatever that is deemed to be) or call down regardless.

steaknshake925 · #8 06-01-2005, 10:18 AM

is it okay to ever just call the flop and fold the turn? sometimes i do that against straightforward villains.

arkady · #9 06-01-2005, 10:22 AM

Absolutely. There are some who will routinely check the flop (like me [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) so against those kind of people you are often seeing the river for 1 sb. Even if they do not check and are not known to keep betting draws, no shame in folding the turn. People have no problem calling a flop raise and then folding UI on the turn, this is the same variation except cheaper [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Maybe a tad more weak-tight, but not terribly so.

Wynton · #10 06-01-2005, 10:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I am going to echo that sentiment and add that the previous flop raise suggestion is marginal at best. There is really no point in raising this for "value" against an opponent who a) will not fold b) has a piece + draw c) has draw.

You either decide to fold on a scare card (whatever that is deemed to be) or call down regardless.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get this. The opponent is very loose preflop, but is supposed to play well post-flop. In that case, it sounds like he might fold to a raise at some point, unless he has a piece of the flop.

Even though he's loose, this board still could have missed him.