goofball play/QQ?

tinhat · #1 05-31-2005, 07:35 PM

I'm sorry, I don't have any info on players here except to say pfr wasn't maniacal. I was multi-tabling and had just sat down here a few hands earlier. Missing pfrr was a mistake (hit "call" by accident since I had a hand going on another table).

My problem with these hands/boards is trying to feel out others and take control if I can vs. calling down (which I can't stand - sorry).

My first question is, is the flop raise completely out of line given the board (in retrospect I think it is; kinda bonzai)?

Second question is, what do you make of the turn action?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, Hero calls, 2 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, CO folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Possibly the obligatory pfr flop bet. I really wanted to get this down to me/pfr and try to get a cheap read on what he might be playing. Had I been rr I was planning to fold if it was just the two of us. Me improving is a long shot so I probably should've just stayed a passenger.

Turn: (6.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG+1 calls.

When he led out I was wondering with my pf "call"/flop rr if he had me on spade draw. With the turn 'blank', his lead and being 3-bet I was thinking AQ (or misplayed AK maybe) so I felt safe capping. JT didn't make sense for utg pfr.

Given that AA/KK was also possible/likely (except him not capping flop after the other two had folded), would it have been more intelligent to let him lead and call down instead of reraising?

Mike

post-review comment in white:

I'm not posting this because I hit a miracle card after a foolish(?) flop raise. I was behind the whole way to KK.

the_rookie · #2 05-31-2005, 07:54 PM

3-bet preflop.
Call the flop.
If villian fires on the river again just call.

Pov · #3 05-31-2005, 08:14 PM

The way I see it, you've got 2 outs for the remaining Q's, and backdoor straight and flush draws for 1.5 outs each giving you at first glance 5 outs. However, when you factor in the posibility of AA or KK and that one of your opponents could have the K:spades: or a JT hand (not the raiser, but the other ones) I think you're at more like 3 outs. If you were closing the betting I think I would peel one off anyway, but considering there are two players left to act after you I probably fold this flop. The only thing making the fold questionable in my mind is that you didn't 3-bet pre-flop so villain has no reason to believe he's betting into a lot of strength.

droolie · #4 06-01-2005, 12:44 AM

First of all calling down is good. Learn to do it! Some of you guys get so wrapped up in being aggressive and "in control" of a hand that you are wasting tons of BB's in the process. Spewing money or folding is a terrible way to play poker. There are going to be many many situations where you have odds to see the showdown but not enough to voluntarily put money in the pot. Calling down is a very solid play in a huge number of situations.

Now to the hand....

pf- You made a mistake and you know it. Drop tables if this ever happens again.

Flop- By raising you succeeded in getting the pot HU and even prevented getting 3-bet. That being said I think I just call here. What hands are we trying to get to fold here? Do you think a K is folding? Do you think you are ahead and vulnerable? Are the hands you are drawing to vulnerable? You are either way ahead here or are drawing to some major longshots that will win the pot if they hit only some of the time.

Turn: I call the 3-bet. I want villian to lead the river because I think we're ahead well over %55 of the time.

River: If he leads I raise and call a three bet. We cannot completely rule out AA or KK when he 3-bets the river.