Odd play in a big pot, funny reaction

[adspar]

Long time lurker, I owe a lot to these boards.

For my first post, here is an interesting hand and a funny story. This was a small-stakes online 6-max game at a site I don't usually play. They don't offer hand histories, so this is from memory.

Preflop - 6 handed
* me in the small blind: Ah 9s
* 2 donkeys limp. Button raises. I call cause I could easily have the best hand. Big Blind 3-bets. All call.

Flop - 5 players, 15 small bets in the pot
* board: 8h, 6h, 3c
* I bet out because I figure the BB will raise his overpair, which will probably get everyone else to fold. That cleans up my Ace outs and maybe gets overcards out if pairing my 9 would be good, and I have the backdoor flush draw and a possible weak straight draw. The pot is huge, so its worth taking this shot.
* I bet, big blind raises, all fold to me and I call.
* Sweet, exactly what I wanted.

Turn - 2 players, 9.5 big bets in the pot.
* board: Th
* Now I picked up the flush draw, plus an inside straight draw. I figure I have 9 outs to the nut flush, plus 3 Aces and 3 sevens for probable winners. That's 15 outs of the 46 unseen cards, so I have an easy call getting 10.5 to 1 from the pot.
* I check, big blind bets, I call.

River - 2 players, 11.5 big bets in the pot
* board: Ad
* Sweet, I rivered top pair. No point betting it, but I probably win.
* I check, big blind bets, I call.
* I drag the 13.5 big bet pot after big blind shows 9d9c

This hand is a good examples of how big pots force you to change your strategy considerably. I think the circumstances of this hand made it appropriate to bet the flop with what was almost certainly the worst hand. Thanks to "Hold'em For Advanced Players" for winning me this pot.

Anyway, I mentioned that hilarity ensued. I very rarely engage my opponents in chat. In fact I usually turn the chat feature off, but I rarely play this site and hadn't turned it off.

The big blind was pretty upset about losing a big pot on the last card, so he begins berating me for what he thinks is bad play. It always pisses me off when I see players criticize their opponents' play, so this opportunity to respond was too good to pass up.

Big Blind says - "That was absolutely horrible"

Now keep in mind that I'm pretty proud of myself because I used some fairly sophisticated moves that paid off. Also note that this guy went a little overboard with his middle pocket pair. If he hadn't 3-bet preflop I probably would have just check-folded on the flop, although maybe someone else would have sucked out on him. But that is the nature of middle pocket pairs, and he kind of brought this "bad beat" upon himself.

I reply - "Yeah betting the river there didn't make too much sense for you. Horrible."

Big blind says - "Well I figured your hand hit the flop... you know, since you called a reraise."

Actually I called a raise not a reraise, but who's keeping track. So he is now defending his river bet. It started out with him criticizing me, but now I've got him flopping around trying to justify his own play.

I reply: "Horrible figuring."

Outzinged, he pretty much gives up on the "horrible' line of conversation, but is still fuming mad.

Big blind says: "I love it when idiots fall a$$ backwards into a hand and then act like they played it right"

This is so replete with irony:

1. At no point in our little conversation did I ever defend my play to him. I didn't act like I played it right; I simply questioned his play, but he's too mad and/or stupid to realize that.

2. Second, as I've already mentioned, with the possible exception of my preflop call, I think I did play my hand right, but he's not a good enough player to realize that. And I didn't fall into that hand, I had to work hard for it! But to his ignorant a$$, my play looked idiotic. (By the way, I find it hilarious when angry players find ways around the poker software's auto censoring: a$$, chit, etc. Where there's a will, there's a way.)

3. If you believe your opponent is such a bad player, why would you tell him? Criticism is going to piss a person off, which usually has one of two effects - it is either going to make them play better, or it will make them leave. Do you really want your opponents to get better? Do you really want a horrible player to leave your game?

I was content to simply enjoy irony #1 without further comment. As for irony #2, I felt no need to defend my play. I didn't want to educate him any more than I had already done by questioning his river bet, which I was only willing to do because I knew I wouldn't be playing in this game much longer. On that note, I figured I'd teach him irony lesson #3.

I responded: "You are mean. I don't want to play with you any more. Your meanness is driving this bad player away from your game."

And I left the table.

[diebitter]

I'd have added '... with your money' to the parting sentence [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[bobdibble]

Way too much talking. You should just say, "I was feeling lucky" and leave it at that.

[EStreet20]

A nice "Having an ace is DA BOMB" usually draws funny responses, or calling any part of any play or hand DA BOMB works. I forget which 2+2er drops the "TIME TO CALL THE WHAMBULAAAAAANCE" but that's a good way to frustrate someone.

Good luck,
Matt

[phy1234]

I think you should have led out the river. A lot of hands KK-99 will call your bet and many will check behind you if you check.

[chesspain]

I don't like the flop bet. Indeed, why do want to knock others out of the pot? If the BB has an overpair or a big ace, then you are drawing to three pair outs (without knowing which card you need to pair) in addition to some backdoor outs. Furthermore, knocking out others' overcards isn't going to help you unless all of the following occur: the BB is on big ace, you hit your nine, and then someone else calls the turn dry and hits his overcard on the river. Finally, with 18SB in the pot after the BB's potential flop raise, I wouldn't count on someone folding a piece of this board with an ace kicker. In fact, about the only way I like this plan is if you intend to bluff if you get it heads-up, in the hopes of getting the BB to fold his IU big ace. However, you are then looking at putting in at least another 2BB into this pot with your crappy ace.

Whereas it's good that you are putting significant thought into your actions, I don't think it was wise to possibly charge yourself double to see the turn when you were drawing to a handful of unclear outs. In fact, if you look at the hand more carefully, you paid a premium on the flop and turn with a drawing hand--and then when you hit your hand you couldn't even feel comfortable betting it because you never knew to what exactly you were drawing.

Overall, I believe that you took a concept from HEFAP, misapplied it, were forced to put money into the pot when you were behind, and then you failed to put money into the pot when you were ahead.

Not exactly a hand about which to be gloating.

[bpb]

[ QUOTE ]
Big Blind says - "That was absolutely horrible"


[/ QUOTE ]

He's right.

I think chesspain summarized it well.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
2 donkeys limp. Button raises. I call cause I could easily have the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really like calling 2 bets cold with A/9 suited, especially from the small blind. If you really believe you have the best hand, then 3-bet to isolate and take momentum on the flop. If not, fold, but I don't think the call here is right. Anyone agree/disagree?

[adspar]

Thanks for the play critique, I was looking for that as much as just relaying a funny incident. My thoughts -

If BB has KK to 99, on the flop I'm about a 4-1 dog. If he has AK, I'm about a 4-1 dog. If he has 77 with a heart, I'm only 3-1. So regardless of what he holds, with 15 SBs out there to start, its worth me putting 2 bets in on the flop.

And in this game, my oppenents aren't good enough to realize that the pot is big enough for them to call a double flop bet with a hand like JcTc or AcTs. Some of their hands might take away from my equity, so since I was pretty sure he'd raise I still think the flop bet was a good play.

"Paid a premium on the turn."

On the turn the pot gave me over 10-1 and I'm only a 2-1 dog. I'll pay that premium all day.

I agree with you that betting the river would have been better. He probably can't raise AK if he's bet into, and he might check behind with 99-KK. But from what I had seen from this guy so far, he didn't seem like he'd check if I checked, so this mistake isn't too bad. Actually a check-raise would have been nasty.

And come on, I'm not gloating about the hand. (I am gloating about zinging a jackass.)

[mute]

[ QUOTE ]
I reply - "Yeah betting the river there didn't make too much sense for you. Horrible."


[/ QUOTE ]

Betting the river should be standard here. IMO BB played it perfectly.