PWND at 1/2

macdaddy991 · #1 05-26-2005, 05:16 AM

Button bets to pick up pots when checked to him. On the turn, I am not sure anymore if the c/r was correct. Comments appreciated.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1.
3 folds, MP1 calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls $1.40 (All-In), MP1 calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (11.10 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players, 1 all-in)
MP1 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.55 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, Hero calls.

River: (12.55 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.55 BB

thesharpie · #2 05-26-2005, 05:26 AM

I play it the same if you know he'll bet this turn.

yellowjack · #3 05-26-2005, 05:31 AM

You win those most of the time, given your read. I think C/R is better than calling and then check/calling the river because of the many draws out there. I can't bring myself to fold to his 3-bet on the turn, especially if you plan on staying at that table.

adsman · #4 05-26-2005, 05:33 AM

This is one of those flops that I don't like with AK, specifically because you've already got two broadway on the flop. You're calling to spike your gutshot but you're probably going to hit one of your overcards instead. When a third broadway hits the turn you can be fairly sure that someone has hit 2 pair or the str8. Thus most of your outs on the flop here are very tainted - you really only want the T. Plus there's a player all-in who could have anything, an 8 for example. I don't often fold AK on the flop but I fold it here.

dozer · #5 05-26-2005, 05:39 AM

folding getting 12:1 on the flop with a gutshot draw and 2 overcards is a huge mistake.

milesdyson · #6 05-26-2005, 05:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
When a third broadway hits the turn you can be fairly sure that someone has hit 2 pair or the str8.

[/ QUOTE ]
Horrible way to think. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

thesharpie · #7 05-26-2005, 05:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This is one of those flops that I don't like with AK, specifically because you've already got two broadway on the flop. You're calling to spike your gutshot but you're probably going to hit one of your overcards instead. When a third broadway hits the turn you can be fairly sure that someone has hit 2 pair or the str8. Thus most of your outs on the flop here are very tainted - you really only want the T. Plus there's a player all-in who could have anything, an 8 for example. I don't often fold AK on the flop but I fold it here.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have some random BB hand all in with you and another who likes to bet with nothing. It's way more often they don't have you beat if you spike an overcard.

adsman · #8 05-26-2005, 05:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When a third broadway hits the turn you can be fairly sure that someone has hit 2 pair or the str8.

[/ QUOTE ]
Horrible way to think. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I like it when I'm wrong as it means that I'm about to learn something. But lets have a close look at this hand;

1. Overcards prefer ragged boards. This is the opposite of a ragged board.
2. Backdoor draws strengthen overcards. We have a gutshot that will almost certainly win if it hits.
3. Overcards prefer few opponents. We are against 3 opponents, one of which is all-in.

I think that hero has a very high chance of being reverse dominated on this board. Villain could already have the str8 on the flop. The player all-in preflop means that you might be only playing for the postflop pot. You're getting the odds to call but is it a good call?

thesharpie · #9 05-26-2005, 06:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When a third broadway hits the turn you can be fairly sure that someone has hit 2 pair or the str8.

[/ QUOTE ]
Horrible way to think. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I like it when I'm wrong as it means that I'm about to learn something. But lets have a close look at this hand;

1. Overcards prefer ragged boards. This is the opposite of a ragged board.
2. Backdoor draws strengthen overcards. We have a gutshot that will almost certainly win if it hits.
3. Overcards prefer few opponents. We are against 3 opponents, one of which is all-in.

I think that hero has a very high chance of being reverse dominated on this board. Villain could already have the str8 on the flop. The player all-in preflop means that you might be only playing for the postflop pot. You're getting the odds to call but is it a good call?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are against 2 opponents, both of them having close to random hands. Did you not notice the read on button?

For the 4th time it's a good call. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

adsman · #10 05-26-2005, 06:17 AM

[quote

You are against 2 opponents, both of them having close to random hands. Did you not notice the read on button?

For the 4th time it's a good call. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually its not a good call at all if you're basing your call entirely on the read. The read is that he likes to pick up pots that are checked to him. With that in mind, Hero should have bet the flop himself to counter villians tendancy.
Also, OP did not give any other info on villian. Just because he likes to pick up pots when checked to doesn't make him a bad player. He could be a TAG for all you know. And I don't think that he's holding two random cards here. I always except when I'm wrong, I'm happy to do so. But saying that its a good call because its been stated four times without any backing apart from the OP's very scanty read is not very convincing.