What to do on the river

beachbum · #1 05-25-2005, 10:00 PM

Villain is pretty loose preflop, but I have no strong postflop reads on him.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP calls, Button calls.

Flop: (7 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP calls, Button folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP calls.

River: (6.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero ???

Catt · #2 05-25-2005, 10:34 PM

Ugh. I started by typing the post: "I would bet and fold to a raise, but I am not happy about it." But as I think about it I think the only worse hands that can conceivably call the river bet are pocket pairs lower than 8 which leaves only 77, 55, 33, and 22 and I just don't think they make it to the river this passively all that often. I don't see an Ax hand or a busted flush draw calling, so I am thinking there is very little value in a river bet. I really don't like check-calling here because I think his bet is way more likely to be a made hand than a hand you beat or a bluff, but checking could induce 55 or something like it to bet. Check-folding seems horrid at first glance but is starting to look better as I type. Tough decision and my brain is freezing up on this. I would probably end up checking in the hopes it checks through but calling when he bets in the vain hopes that he's betting an A-high, but I pay off too much.

Would love to see others' comments on this decision.

Benman · #3 05-25-2005, 11:43 PM

It's close between check/call and check/fold. I'd check/call. Could be a busted double gutshot straight, 1 time in 8.

wheelz · #4 05-25-2005, 11:56 PM

or busted flush

check-call is the only way to go.

SteveY · #5 05-25-2005, 11:57 PM

Is this a standard PF raise for everyone?

Anways, yeah this is an iffy common situation. My thoughts really echo Catt's.

I definitely don't bet as I don't have value. So I either check-call or check-fold. Assuming he bets, it's tough to make a clear decision either way without reads, so I would tend to check-fold. Usually what I do is try to see if I can remember ANY postflop action from the guy that would help. Ex: if he saw him bet bottom pair into two players on the flop, then I would say he's probably more aggressive than average, and thus tend to call on the river.

Also, if the river were a total blank, then I would check-call vs an unknown comfortably.

mungpo · #6 05-26-2005, 12:07 AM

I am probably check-folding this hand.

wheelz · #7 05-26-2005, 12:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
check-call is the only way to go.

[/ QUOTE ]

Err... checking is the "only" way to go, calling or folding after that is a decision.

Lmn55d · #8 05-26-2005, 01:31 AM

Sometimes I probably check/call in the heat of battle, but I'm pretty sure checkfolding is right against a typical player. A lot of times Ax will check it through b/c they have showdown value, as will low pairs.

billyjex · #9 05-26-2005, 02:45 AM

i definetely check/call here. on top of a busted flush/straight draw the player could have a six.. to say all players check behind hands with showdown is a lie at this game.. it's close but i call.

twankerr · #10 05-26-2005, 03:03 AM

check-call. Perfect time to put in the one bet you would against hands that beat you and take the extra one bet from hands that will bluff, specifically the ace high flush draw.