Obvious Players

[RacersEdge]

How hard /easy is this a river fold here?

Live 3/6...

Say about 4 BB in pot on flop. Only me raising PF. Plain vanilla hand.

I have A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in MP.


EP checks, I bet. Others fold. EP calls.

Turn: EP checks, I bet, EP calls.

River: Straight possible, I'm UI. : EP bets.

These live players are so readable/obvious. Hardly any bluffing. I knew he had the straight. Only problem to me is setting a precedent of folding to a river bet.

[JoshuaD]

You haven't provided nearly enough information for us to decide if you should fold.

[jackdaniels]

I'm sure someone can correct me here if I am wrong, but I would fold this river if I was "pretty sure" ooponent had the str8. It would take 10BB in the pot for me to call 1 BB when I am "almost positive" I am beat. Essentially, I am looking for 10 to 1 on my money in this situation since opponent can be bluffing 10% of the time (especially since you checked in to him, right?) and I only need to win 1 in 10 pots this way to break even on these calls. It is simply a much bigger mistake to fold in such a situation and "save" a bet (but lose the pot) than it is to call and "lose" a bet.

Note that the 10 to 1 figure is completely arbitrary here, it is a function of how well I think I can read opponents hands and how often I think I am wrong.

[chief444]

I have no idea with the information given. But it sounds like you're sure so if you're sure you're sure...know what I mean?

I don't think having opponent take river shots at you on future hands because they know you're capable of folding is really that big of a deal as long as you're aware of it and obviously next time in this situation you should probably call.

[RacersEdge]

[ QUOTE ]
You haven't provided nearly enough information for us to decide if you should fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably because I can't remember all the details. What else would you want to know? I'm just trying to get at the subject of "when obvious straightforward players show aggression".

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
I have no idea with the information given. But it sounds like you're sure so if you're sure you're sure...know what I mean?

I don't think having opponent take river shots at you on future hands because they know you're capable of folding is really that big of a deal as long as you're aware of it and obviously next time in this situation you should probably call.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a 3/6 live game. I'm not sure if you've ever played there, but anyone who knows anything is pretty rare. He almost definitely won't realize he can take shots at you on the river.

That said, against an unknown, even at live 3/6, I'm looking them up here. I want to make damn sure he's not taking a shot at me. I might fold next time in a similiar situation against the same player.

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You haven't provided nearly enough information for us to decide if you should fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably because I can't remember all the details. What else would you want to know? I'm just trying to get at the subject of "when obvious straightforward players show aggression".

[/ QUOTE ]

Which cards are on the flop. That will tell me whether you've got two pair or just AA, What sort of 4-straight is on board. Whether the straight draw was on the flop, or whether it was a double runner.

All of those factors play a part in your descision.

[thejameser]

at 3/6 live i don't think there are enough thinking players for a precedent to be set on one river fold, if they even notice it, and remember to try to exploit if it is something you do frequently. secondly, i call because in 3/6 live he could be betting anything from top pair to bottom pair. 7BB in the pot, for one more bet i call. was it 4 to a straight on the board? does this player like to play alot of draws. maybe he caught a pair with top kicker on the river. my point is, yes 3/6 live players are very readable, but their skill level also produces an amount of unpredictability that leads me to bet/call/raise on the basis of my hand and not necessarily be scared that the nut hand is out there because a majority of the time it is not, despite the fact that it is almost always represented. you know the player better than i do, but longterm 3/6 live(specifically) i think you win the pot more often than not. they do LOVE to call to the river though.

[chief444]

Lots and lots. I've played more live a little higher but I've donked around plenty at 3/6 as well.

Anyway, I was just responding really to racers metagame concerns. Obviously if the opponent is a typical 3/6 player just there to have some fun then there really are no metagame concerns, I agree.

[psyduck]

Show it down. At 3/6 live, there are essentially no metagame worries because most of them aren't paying attention. Also, wouldn't a rivered straight try to checkraise instead? Finally, is it an obvious straight like 4 to a straight or something?