Fire on Board...please comment

[Liam Carver]

First Hand Post....Am I too aggressive? I often play nut flush draws very fast with an additional overcard. I am wondering if you dudes out there play this similarily. I CR to knock opponents out and increase the chances of me winning if I catch my ace or jack. I don't like to allow people with ace-rag (A4 or A3 in this case) to catch two pair when an ace comes. Is this thinking flawed? I am wondering if I am CRing improperly here...Give it to me.

Tiger Gaming 1/2 (7 Handed)
Reads, I have been sitting at this table for Approx. 2 hrs...many coming and going, but VERY loose action all around. Most here are LAG, no-one (and I mean no-one) but me has been folding pre-flop more than 20% of the time (I have folded 67% pre-flop, 8% on the flop). I have no other stats.

Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Preflop: UTG calls, Hero Raises, MP1 3-bets, MP2 calls, Button Caps, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop:(4 players - 18.5 SB) 10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero Checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Button calls, Hero Raises, Everyone calls.

Turn: (4 players - 26.5 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Button calls, Hero Raises, Everyone calls.

River: (4 players - 21.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero Bets, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Button Calls.

Final Pot: 24.25 BB

Results in White:
<font color="white"> Hero has AJ, MP2 has AT, Button has J8.
Hero wins 24.25BB </font>

[Nick Royale]

Bet the turn.

[brick]

I didn't look at the results yet. So here goes.

Good raise pre-flop.

Does the button cap mean anything?
Flop is nice and you have lots of options.
A - Lead and hope that the button raises to trap the entire field.
B - Check and see what develops.

I think A is the clear choice here because the button is going to have an over pair or AK at least a good majority of the time. If you think the button would cap with crap, then the check-raise is great.

So you check-raised and the turn is a J.
!Achtung! This is the bet that will get people to fold. Bet. Get people to fold. I give you an A+ for creativity but you need to have a good plan for the check-raise and I don't see the benefits.

River check and call. It was capped and everyone is hanging around. Let them bluff if they haven't got much.

[brick]

Looks like button was crazy. Check-raise is ok.
You need to be ready for it to come back 2 bets to you.

Bet the turn.
Check the river.

[W. Deranged]

1. I think the flop really has a lot of available options here, and I think a check-raise is certainly the right play, basically because most likely one of two things happens:

a. The initial flop bet comes from the button capper. In this case, you will confront MP1 and MP2 with two bets. If MP1 was three-betting with AK or AQ here, he may (emphasize "may"... this is 1/2) dump the hand and clean up your A outs.

b. If, instead, the flop bet comes from an earlier player (most likely MP1), then a check-raise is good for another reason, VALUE. If MP1 bets and MP2, even if it gets raised behind, you are looking at likely playing the hand 4 handed (and almost certainly 3) in which case your nut draw is getting a big overlay.

So I can't see really what goes wrong here with a check-raise. One could argue betting out achieves a similar result in the two above scenarios, simply reversed, though there is the possibility a flop lead will just get called around and I think that is not a great outcome in any direction.

[brick]

[ QUOTE ]
there is the possibility a flop lead will just get called around and I think that is not a great outcome.

[/ QUOTE ]
But it is not that bad an outcome either.

It really depends on whether you think your overcard outs are any good against the button. (not up against big pairs or bigger aces) And will the rest of the table fold big cards to a check raise?

The question is does the button cap with such junk that your hand is often the best here?
Button would have to be noticibily crazy.

[templar999]

Liam,

i would not necessarily assume that the button is the most likely bettor on the flop. after all, MP1 did three bet you PF. in that light, i would lead the flop as your hand has 15 outs to top pair or better. the more bets that go in on the flop, the better. i think the turn and the river are relatively straightforward.

scenario 1. you bet, MP1 raises. that's fine with you. if they fold, fine. if they call, feel free to reraise or cap.

scenario 2. you bet, MP1 calls, button raises. that's fine too. at this point, every bet that goes in makes you money. again, feel free to reraise.

scenario 3. you bet, MP1 calls, button calls. you didnt get a chance to narrow the field, but you got bets in on the flop. calls cant hurt you.

on the other hand, if you check, however unlikely it is, it will be an disaster if it gets checked around. in situations where it does not matter if you narrow the field or if everyone comes along for as many bets as you can put in, i would always bet. i would save a CR for a time when your hand warrants protection. in this case, it needs none.

respectfully,
temp

[Sarge85]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this.

Don't risk this getting checked through.- hope someone raises so you can pump the pot more.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[Liam Carver]

Thanks so much for your input and comments. I had a suspicion that I was going a little hard here, not thinking about the consequences.

[ QUOTE ]
I like this. [betting the turn]
Don't risk this getting checked through.- hope someone raises so you can pump the pot more.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

So you check-raised and the turn is a J.
!Achtung! This is the bet that will get people to fold. Bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

So I can see that betting the turn seems standard. Thanks for your posts...it is much appreciated.

For the flop,

[ QUOTE ]
on the other hand, if you check, however unlikely it is, it will be an disaster if it gets checked around. in situations where it does not matter if you narrow the field or if everyone comes along for as many bets as you can put in, i would always bet. i would save a CR for a time when your hand warrants protection. in this case, it needs none.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can see what you are saying here. I have a ridiculous amount of outs, and the flop is ragged enough to make a check-around likely.

Liam

[prayformojo]

Turn action is unclear here. I don't see where the turn bet is coming from (button?). I haven't seen the results.

I just bet out on every street. Against LAG opponents in an enormous pot, I don't see much value in carefully manouvering bets in the hope of cleaning up outs. LAGs will generally bet, and when they don't bet, they will generally call. Bet in the hope of raises behind with the opportunity for a capped pot. The only place I would slow down is on the river, especially if I had been betting every street, but as it is I say just pump the pot.

As an aside, where are you getting your fold percentages? If they're accurate, and you're really seeing 33% of flops, you're probably playing too loosely, even if you're the tightest at the table.

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