KK 3-Bet Pre-Flop

Jazza · #1 05-19-2005, 04:36 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG+1 ($203.59)
UTG+2 ($82.96)
MP1 ($205.82)
MP2 ($41.62)
MP3 ($187.85)
CO ($215.55)
Button ($82.2)
Hero ($98)
BB ($97)
UTG ($128.84)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.5.
3 folds, MP1 calls $1, 3 folds, Button raises to $5, Hero (poster) raises to $14.5, BB raises to $34, MP1 folds, Button folds, Hero

have played 2 hands with this guy, no read, what's my plan?

jeccross · #2 05-19-2005, 07:24 AM

I'd push almost every time with KK here, would only fold if I have a very good read (i.e. he's supertight)

JaBlue · #3 05-19-2005, 07:41 AM

your plan is to fold

kongo_totte · #4 05-19-2005, 11:46 AM

Call.

There are to many possibilities he does not have the only hand that beats you. Hew might think it's a blind steal and a blind defense and wants to take it down w/ QQ-JJ. Or, he could be an average awful Party Player and make this w/ any PP down to Ts.

I don't like to push though. He is likely to fold QQ-JJ and always calls with A A. From extracting purposes, call and let him call down his over pair (which hopefully is lower than yours).

AA vs. KK happend and I'm not folding KK on Party SSNL without a read.

Ghazban · #5 05-19-2005, 11:47 AM

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Call.

There are to many possibilities he does not have the only hand that beats you. Hew might think it's a blind steal and a blind defense and wants to take it down w/ QQ-JJ. Or, he could be an average awful Party Player and make this w/ any PP down to Ts.

I don't like to push though. He is likely to fold QQ-JJ and always calls with A A. From extracting purposes, call and let him call down his over pair (which hopefully is lower than yours).

AA vs. KK happend and I'm not folding KK on Party SSNL without a read.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is your plan for a ragged flop? How about a flop with an ace on it?

kongo_totte · #6 05-19-2005, 11:57 AM

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[ QUOTE ]
Call.

There are to many possibilities he does not have the only hand that beats you. Hew might think it's a blind steal and a blind defense and wants to take it down w/ QQ-JJ. Or, he could be an average awful Party Player and make this w/ any PP down to Ts.

I don't like to push though. He is likely to fold QQ-JJ and always calls with A A. From extracting purposes, call and let him call down his over pair (which hopefully is lower than yours).

AA vs. KK happend and I'm not folding KK on Party SSNL without a read.

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What is your plan for a ragged flop? How about a flop with an ace on it?

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I'm definatly betting a ragged flop. I'm really not sure if an A flops. Bet?

Ghazban · #7 05-19-2005, 12:08 PM

I was just curious. You're correct in that pushing preflop lets QQ-TT get away cheaply preflop when they would've gone broke on a rag flop but, at the same time, you're giving up initiative on a hand where you will be out of position and the pot will be large.

Betting an A-high flop could make villain lay down the other two kings, but I don't think it gains you anything from any other hand (as QQ-TT will likely fold) and anything with an ace in it (AA/AK maybe AQs) isn't going anywhere anyway. However, if you don't bet the A-high flop, you can't comfortably call, either, as villain could confidently bet anything when you check it to him including QQ-TT which you beat.

Honestly, I'm not sure what the best play is (both preflop and postflop) without a decent read.

chopchoi · #8 05-19-2005, 02:26 PM

What hands would he do this with? AA, for sure, and probably also AK and QQ. He might try it with JJ. AQ is unlikely,but not unfathomable. I don't think he has aces more than 25% of the time, so you want to get all of his chips in the pot. Just calling is the worst move. You can't give him a free shot at pairing his ace or spiking a set. If you push, he will almost certainly fold AQ and JJ, and may fold AK and QQ also. I would re-raise the amount of his bet, just to make it easier for him to call, then push the flop no matter what.

I NEVER fold kings pre-flop. There have just been to many times that I was certain I was up against aces, called anyway, and he didn't have them (I would guess about 2/3 of the time).

schwza · #9 05-19-2005, 04:49 PM

i'd call and c/r all-in on any non-A flop. pushing now lets him get away from AK/QQ/JJ, which you don't really want.

Ghazban · #10 05-19-2005, 04:58 PM

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i'd call and c/r all-in on any non-A flop. pushing now lets him get away from AK/QQ/JJ, which you don't really want.

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What are you doing if there's an ace on the flop? Check/folding?