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billyjex · #1 05-19-2005, 02:58 AM

UTG is a TAG, SB capper is playing his 2nd hand at this table. WTF do I do on the flop? It doesn't show up here but the CO was all in PF (he had 3 bucks left.)

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, SB caps, 1 fold, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB raises, UTG folds, Hero ?

beachbum · #2 05-19-2005, 03:21 AM

It's not a bad flop for you. Since you have no read on him, you obviously don't know how hard he'll push overs. How about check-call down a non-Ace board? This can be an expensive way to get information, but that might be a slight reason to show the hand down.

dhaimon · #3 05-19-2005, 03:37 AM

Going straight from 0 to cap is in my book a sign of huge strength, or a huge sign of a moron. He's got an overpair here very often. Folding is ok, calling down is ok. If he's got overcards just let him continue to bluff.

I believe I would muck here though.

gaming_mouse · #4 05-19-2005, 04:05 AM

I fold here no problem. Calling down is my second choice.

Oddly, the decision to fold would be even easier if had just bet out. The c/r reads a little like overcards to me, but I still have no problem with a fold, as many people would do this with overcards as well.

kiddo · #5 05-19-2005, 04:51 AM

Fold.

The pot is protected by the guy going all in, even if he havent you beat already he got at least 6 outs twice making this marginal calldown a clear fold.

kiddo · #6 05-19-2005, 04:56 AM

I think a lot of players - even pretty decent ones - plays poorly when someone is allin. They go on (semi)bluffing as if there wont be a showdown.

The guy in this hand could very well be a poor player in this sense but the fact that he raises flop with someone allin protecting the pot should make us think he got a stronger hand then normal. And since he capped preflop "normal" is pretty strong.

billyjex · #7 05-19-2005, 12:41 PM

I folded -- what tipped the scales for me were that the other player was all in and I tend to feel villian wouldn't make such an aggressive move with just overcards here.

But he did have AQs. Strange line from him, for sure. I've been folding some winners in 6-max lately and it's not cool.

If that player hadn't been all in, I most likely would have called the flop and seen if he bet into me on the turn.

CIncyHR · #8 05-19-2005, 01:22 PM

Call. If you miss your set, I think you can fold.

kiddo · #9 05-19-2005, 01:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If that player hadn't been all in, I most likely would have called the flop and seen if he bet into me on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, my line 2.

There is no way to never fold a winner and still be a winner yourself. You have to act like the other one behaves rational untill its proved he doesnt.

If u are up against a good player that know there is no reason to bluff when someone is allin u can often take down the sidepot with a bluffbet because he will fold much more easily then normal. If table is without draws he will fold overcards and such.

beachbum · #10 05-19-2005, 03:08 PM

He's all in, but there's only $9 in the main pot and ~$70 in the side pot. The pot's protected but only a small amount of it. If you check call down, you're spending $25 more to win $70+$25 in the side pot. Or, basically 4:1.

This is a common situation (concerning the math anyway) like when you're faced with a board of Q947 when you've got pocket 10's, and just get check-raised HU on the turn. Usually the pot lays you about 4:1 that you're tens are good. Obviously, reads are crucial in making the right play.

Would a "standard" play in these type 4:1 showdown situations be to call down a non-Ace turn and/or river against a non-abc player?