KJo meets huge pot

PotatoStew · #1 05-17-2005, 10:24 PM

Haven't been at the table very long, so no reads yet. I'm interested in feedback on all streets. I'll hold off on explaining my thinking so as not to taint any comments.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (21.33 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (10.66 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 folds, MP2 folds, Hero raises, Button folds, BB calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

River: (16.66 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: 17.66 BB

KDawgCometh · #2 05-17-2005, 10:34 PM

I'd really like to see a flop bet. if utg+1 raises then the rest of the field would be facing two cold. As is we are either wa/wb, so a flop bet in this size pot I think would be prudent. Unless something crazy happens you're gonna be seeing a showdown here. You are giving infinate odds to anyone drawing

ncboiler · #3 05-17-2005, 11:06 PM

I limp preflop with K/Jo from MP. Def bet the flop. You slow play strategy worked if that's what you were doing by the flop check. I'm puttnig villian on A/Q..A/Js or something like that but you are probably ahead. Bet river.

Klepton · #4 05-17-2005, 11:15 PM

as more people enter the pot,unsuited overcards lose equity, and should not be raised - limping is fine

why you didn't bet the flop is baffling me

rest of the hand is played fine

PotatoStew · #5 05-17-2005, 11:47 PM

Yeah, thinking about it afterwards, I was definitely second guessing the PF raise.

Regarding, the lack of a flop bet, I was thinking about pp 160 - 165 of SSH here:

"If the pot is extremely large, forgo a flop raise if doing so increases the chance you will be bet into on the turn."

The pot was big -- no one was folding to one bet. I only had to hope the button checked behind, and I was pretty sure that the preflop limp-reraiser would bet into me on the turn. If a safe card fell, I could raise then, and face most of the field with having to call 2BB cold. That seemed like a better way to protect my hand.

CourtJester · #6 05-17-2005, 11:50 PM

I dont know how well u play post flop, but if ur comfortable then i guess its kinda ok to raise KJo from MP but normally not. The flop check i kinda agree witht hough, as it will just inflate the pot because no1 is folding for 1, or even 2 in that huge pot. If they had something to call to see the flop, most are seeing the turn and a flop bet only adds odds to the later street. I pretty much agree with the whole thing except the raise PF, specially with 4 ppl already in.

PotatoStew · #7 05-17-2005, 11:54 PM

Yeah, my PF raise % is through the roof at 3/6.... this is symptomatic of that (or rather it's causing it, I suppose would be more accurate). I need to calm down a bit.

brettbrettr · #8 05-18-2005, 12:13 AM

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why you didn't bet the flop is baffling me

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PotatoStew · #9 05-18-2005, 07:46 AM

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why you didn't bet the flop is baffling me

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See my explanation a few posts above. Do you feel that this concept doesn't apply here? If so, why?

How likely is it that a flop bet will get anyone to fold? For one bet they have odds to draw to anything. And by pumping up the pot on the flop, I give them odds to draw to almost anything again on the turn. Everyone staying in to the bitter end is bad news for my pair of Kings, I think.

cmwck · #10 05-18-2005, 07:56 AM

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why you didn't bet the flop is baffling me

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See my explanation a few posts above. Do you feel that this concept doesn't apply here? If so, why?

How likely is it that a flop bet will get anyone to fold? For one bet they have odds to draw to anything. And by pumping up the pot on the flop, I give them odds to draw to almost anything again on the turn. Everyone staying in to the bitter end is bad news for my pair of Kings, I think.

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Yes, I'm wondering about this too. Even if someone has an ace, they won't fold it on the flop for one bet. If you bet and UTG+1 raises, he'll only be facing one player (UTG+2) with two cold, and even then he will be getting about 13:1 to call.

If it's checked to you on the turn, betting offers worse odds at least than betting the flop, and if someone bets the turn, you can raise to protect your hand.

There is a similar example of this in HPFAP. They advocated just checking the flop, planning to bet or raise on the turn. However, that example was slightly different because Hero had AA.