Distortions of the Mind.

[Zeno]

In two recent threads, the excellent reply of Natedogg to Chris and Dynasty's response to Andy lead me to ask a fundamental question for discussion.

How much does hate distort clear thinking?

This simple question has many implications for most threads, debate, and ongoing discussions in this forum.

(I should add that I am not accusing Andy of hating George Bush, in my opinion he does not - but I do think Chris does, by evidence in many of his posts. I single this out for example only. We probably all fail, at times, and on some level, to a quasi-slavery to this fundanmental emotion).

-Zeno

[sirio11]

[ QUOTE ]
In two recent threads, the excellent reply of Natedogg to Chris and Dynasty's response to Andy lead me to ask a fundamental question for discussion.

How much does hate distort clear thinking?


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure hate distort clear thinking. No doubt about that.

I have the following problem though.

How do you define what is "clear thinking"?

If your position about an issue is different from somebody's position. His thinking is less clear depending of how far he's from your position?. If the "clearness" is a function of proximity to my position we clearly have a problem. If not, then how you identify your opponent is not thinking clearly. I would like to know to see some pointers here. There are some posters in this forum that I think qualified as not thinking "clearly" whatever that means; but Chris and Andy are really far from being those. They usually give arguments and facts to back their positions, hardly to see them as emotional.

Nate's reply excellent?

[ QUOTE ]
Your hatred of Bush and his policies has blinded you from understanding what most people intuitively grasp with ease. It's sad to see.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The fact that this needs explaining is sad and pathetic


[/ QUOTE ]

I find vere amusing that a reply that contains quotes like the above ones can be qualified as excellent.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
How much does hate distort clear thinking?

[/ QUOTE ]

Zeno, you do play poker don't you? <-- Rhetorical question.

I've had the priviledge of working with the best and the brightest people in the world. I've had lunch with, drank wine with and attended the seminars of more Nobel Laureates then I can count. I thought highly disciplined scientists like this would be exempt of irrational thought. I was completely wrong. When smacked around a little, they are capable of seeing the light. But people simply don't live long enough to learn everything through experience.

Academic researchers tend to be liberal by nature and the amount of hate some of them display for anything republican, especially those in Massachusetts (which is a great state btw), never ceases to amaze me.

[lehighguy]

Perhaps an example of hate being a blinding force:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/08/op...brooks.html?hp

[Zeno]

You are not thinking clearly.

-Zeno

[Zeno]

[ QUOTE ]
Zeno, you do play poker don't you? <-- Rhetorical question.


[/ QUOTE ]

I thought about poker some when making the post.

I also almost deleted the post. Using other people as examples, without their permission, was perhaps not very civil or wise. But the deed is done. In addition, I assumed that most would either misunderstand or misconstrue the question thus making the post very risky.

And there probably is a difference between hate and disdain and between polices enacted by individuals and the individual alone at least in some instances. But that distinction is beyond some.

I have also experienced some of the same things you mentioned during my academic career. It was at first somewhat disturbing, but I have since come to understand that this occurs on a grand scale. So I am conducting a test.

Thanks for the response.

-Zeno

[andyfox]

Thanks, I think, for the non-accusation.

President Bush's comments on Yalta struck me as an example of why his foreign policy is, in my opinion, misguided. He only sees part of the picture and he only sees things in black and white. (See my response to Dynasty for more detail.)

These are dangerous times. A United States senator recently justified the killing of judges as "understandable." The President had to say (eloquently, IMHO) at his recent press conference that people of different faiths, and even people of no faith, are just as patriotic as anyone else. That he had to say it, in the wake of statements seemingly to the contrary by the Republican leader in the Senate and others, is testimony to the danger of the times.

Of course hate is detrimental to clear thinking. So are igrnorance and falsehood. Those latter two are often invoked to justify hatred.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
How much does hate distort clear thinking?

[/ QUOTE ] I think the clear answer it a lot. If there is one thing this particular forum has taught me is that no one answer is always correct. In fact there is usually multiple answers to most questions, and these answers come from both the right and the left. I have also noticed that a majority of people don't realize this. I think a lot of the regular posters in this forum either realize this, or they reluctantly follow their idealogical stances. But compare these posters to the rest of the nation and I think its obvious that most of America uses hate to cloud their judgement of particular people and particular groups.

[sirio11]

[ QUOTE ]
You are not thinking clearly.

-Zeno

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you elaborate? What is exactly the reason you think this way? What part of my post exactly make you feel this way? Again, how do you differenciate when somebody is thinking clearly? It's an honest question, and I'll aprecciate an effort to answer it. One liners, doesn't help much. Please give some pointers how do you discern about the clarity of the thinking of anybody? If It is just a "feeling", I'll apreciate if you're clear about that. My guess is that you just sensed some kind of oposition to your post, therefore I'm not thinking clearly. But maybe, you're right and I and other posters over here don't think as clear as you (this is not a sarcasm). I'll just apreciate if you can help us (sincerily) pointing exactly what part of our thinking indicates that and why. I think this is not very much to ask, and if you're right, this would be very helpful, as least for me.

[sirio11]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps an example of hate being a blinding force:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/08/op...brooks.html?hp

[/ QUOTE ]


I liked this part

[ QUOTE ]
Don't take people at their word. Don't listen to them when they tell you how to be virtuous.

They're faking it. They don't care about virtue, or you or the common good. They're just taking opportunistic potshots under the guise of sermonizing. They're just a bunch of hypocrites.



[/ QUOTE ]

The rest is just too partisan, but the above quote can be applied to many different groups.