I hate how i played this hand

@bsolute_luck · #1 05-06-2005, 11:45 AM

...but i was a bit lost, hadn't seen many good hands, and had my AK 2pair cracked by 32 offsuit coldcalling a raise and getting a turn-made straight 2 hands earlier, so i was bit....out of sorts [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Reads: whole table was semi-Loose Passive preflop (playing anything connected or with a face card in it)- and varying WeakTight and LoosePassive/semi-aggressive, sometimes calling down with bottom pair and any draw, and sometimes folding to any aggression, and usually at least raising once with top pair (rarely 3-betting, but if they do raise, they're staying 'til the river).

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (11.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button raises, UTG folds, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

I should have 3-bet, especially with MP3 in the middle. button was not on a flush draw- i knew that 100%. MP3 might have been or lower pair, but i figured i was ahead.

Turn: (8.70 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks, Button bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls, Button 3-bets, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

well, i still thought i was ahead, knew Button would bet and i wanted to see what MP3 would do. once button 3-bets though, i know my TPTK isn't good. MP3 i figured flush draw

River: (17.70 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks, Button bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls, Button calls.

again, if button had 2 pair, i figured he knew i had a jack, and would bet the river, so i c/r because i knew button wasn't going to fold 2pair and i didn't care what MP3 had really. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

i KNOW there has to be a better way to play this hand regardless of the outcome.

My predictions of responses: 3-bet the flop, if capped call down or if called, lead the turn. if reraised on the turn, call. but i'll be interested to hear what people say about the river c/r.

davelin · #2 05-06-2005, 11:49 AM

Leading the river is much, much better than check/raising the river.

cold_cash · #3 05-06-2005, 11:53 AM

I just skimmed this but at first glance I would say bet the river and call a raise.

I wouldn't like being raised again, but I would like it much more than having my check-raise 3-bet. I want one or two bets in, not zero or three.

I also wouldn't want to put that much pressure on MP3. He's never folding a better hand, but he might call two bets one at a time with a worse one.

droolie · #4 05-06-2005, 11:58 AM

I really don't mind the flop smooth call if you were planning on the turn C/R if you know button is not drawing. It looks like MP3 might be drawing so trying to get him to fold on the turn doesn't seem that bad. If you three bet the flop and lead the turn he has odds to call just about any gutshot draw. C/Ring makes him incorect to call with a gutshot.

The river is a major scare card for button though if he has most of the hands you beat though. You showed serious aggression on the turn. You will see that river checked throuh a lot by hands you beat and bet by hands that bury you. You also don't want to fold out MP3. Just bet the river so MP3 is tempted to call. If raised by button call it.

Disconnected · #5 05-06-2005, 12:00 PM

I think your predicted response is good. The way it went down, I wouldn't check-raise on the river. You did it on the turn, so I think you need to lead out the river. If button thinks he has you beat, he'll raise you again, he seems to be aggressive. The ace falling makes it more likely to get checked through behind you, too.

MrWookie47 · #6 05-06-2005, 12:00 PM

Had I been playing, I probably would have played it exactly in the manner of your predicted response. The way you played it, it looks like waiting to the turn to protect a vulnurable hand. 3betting the flop would not have made it incorrect for 4 and 5 out hands to call, but facing MP3 with two cold on the turn does, especially when a lower, non-spade, not straight card falls. Since you knew the button wasn't the type to pump flush draws (and thus wouldn't be taking a free card), you had to check/raise the turn when you called the flop, so that's fine. Does the value you gave up on the frop make up for the additional protection? I'm torn.

@bsolute_luck · #7 05-06-2005, 12:13 PM

yeah, i thought i should have led the river. but i figured Button would bet if he had 2pair and not assume i had a higher 2 pair, but i did overlook the fact he may have a set and 3-bet me.
i think he'd have just called me when the Ace hit, knowing i had a better 2 pair and i wanted to win more BBs. well here are the results:

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ac Jd (two pair, aces and jacks).
MP3 has As 5c (two pair, aces and fives).
Button has Js Ts (two pair, jacks and tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 23.70 BB.

MrWookie47 · #8 05-06-2005, 12:21 PM

It's the ol' double reverse reverse domination!

Disconnected · #9 05-06-2005, 12:28 PM

hehe, so much for button being passive pre-flop [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Messy Harry · #10 05-06-2005, 12:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, i thought i should have led the river. but i figured Button would bet if he had 2pair and not assume i had a higher 2 pair, but i did overlook the fact he may have a set and 3-bet me.
i think he'd have just called me when the Ace hit, knowing i had a better 2 pair and i wanted to win more BBs. well here are the results:

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ac Jd (two pair, aces and jacks).
MP3 has As 5c (two pair, aces and fives).
Button has Js Ts (two pair, jacks and tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 23.70 BB. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's wishing all the plays you hate work out this well for you!! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]