Is this a close decision?

[Girchuck]

PP $10-$20
No reads.

Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the BB

UTG raises, CO calls, SB calls, I re-raise, everyone calls

Flop K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB checks, I bet, UTG calls, CO raises, SB calls, I fold(?)

Is this a close decision or an obvious error against unknowns in a 10-20 game?

[Wynton]

Take my advice with a huge grain of salt, but I'll venture a guess.

Against unknowns, I'd assume I'm beat, though you easily could be best. UTG could be calling with an underpair (8s through Js). And co could be raising on the flush draw. Still, I'd be thinking there's a 60% chance I'm beat.

I hate betting and folding on the same street though (is this a leak?). So since I want to call anyway, I think I'd recommend reraising and seeing what happens on the turn.

[sy_or_bust]

It's close, but I 3-bet every time.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
It's close, but I 3-bet every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

you spew chips then. What exactly does 3 betting do for you? nothing. He will NEVER fold a better hand he will dump his weaker hand. The guy between you will NEVER fold a king (or any draw).. AND you are out of position so he can punish you at anytime he feels like it, with the PF action its not likely he is raising a flush draw, so there is no free cad, and even if he was raising a flush draw he rebets the turn 97.3% of the time.

Not to be harsh, but 3 betting is awful in this spot.


edit to say: I cant read action very well. So not all of my points make perfect sense...however, 3 betting still is bad [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Nikla]

Very very easy fold. Whoever advocates 3-betting must be kidding. If you held the Qc it becomes closer to a call, I think I'd still muck though.

[Wynton]

Alobar, are you advocating a call then? I've been conditioned never to bet/raise and then fold to one more bet on the same street. Is this a time to reconsider that?

Also, can we really assume that villain will only call with a better hand? At my levels, I think some people will call with weaker hands. And I don't quite understand why the preflop action rules out a flush draw here.

[Wynton]

Ignore my last comment about betting/folding same street. I was thinking of situation where there is no caller in between. Sorry.

[JrJordan]

At 5-10 this is an easy fold, though I don't have the experience of the LAGgy 10-20. You have 3 opponents, one who raised you on the flop and another who cold called two to go on a relatively draw free board (just a flush draw which should be discounted with the strong PF action). You're either way ahead or way behind here and only drawing to 2 outs, so I lay it down.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
Alobar, are you advocating a call then? I've been conditioned never to bet/raise and then fold to one more bet on the same street. Is this a time to reconsider that?

Also, can we really assume that villain will only call with a better hand? At my levels, I think some people will call with weaker hands. And I don't quite understand why the preflop action rules out a flush draw here.

[/ QUOTE ]

im not advocating a call, im saying 3 betting is by far the worst of your 3 options

I misread the action some, and thought it was the original raiser who raised you on the flop. I now see that it wasnt. So that does change things some in regards to the flush draw.

I think the biggest thing in this hand that makes me fold is the SB calling 2 cold and you not having the Qc. With the Qc youve got odds to peel one off.

[Girchuck]

The reason I asked, is that very soon (in an orbit), my read on CO in that hand was adjusted to extreme maniac, and ofcourse I was ahead in the discussed hand. Without reads, I assumed this was a close decision, and the RNG told me to fold. I guess thats why they advocate datamining.