Triple Draw - Problem Situations in 2-7

Luv2DriveTT · #1 04-10-2005, 11:05 AM

I've been playing enough Triple Draw lately to notice some problem situations I'd like some advice on. I cannot find the relevent sollutions in Super System II, perhaps the combined minds of 2+2'ers can point me in the right direction. I've noticed quite a few more, as I have time to collect my thoughts I'll continue to post them here. 2-7 is an amazingly complex game, it is fast becoming a favorite of mine.

After the second draw Hero has 23456. Lets assume that the first draw there were no paired cards, and no aggressive actions by any players so far in the hand.

1) Which card is the ideal discard if the player is first to act?
2) 1) Which card is the ideal discard if the player is last to act?
3) How does the decisions change when facing a large field of opponents?

The Hero is in the Big Blind and checks pre-first draw, hence he starts out of the box without a duce, 3 or 4. After the first draw Hero has 566789. The action is checked around prior to the second draw.

1) Which card is the ideal discard if the player is first to act?
2) 1) Which card is the ideal discard if the player is last to act?
3) How does the decisions change when facing a large field of opponents?

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Phat Mack · #2 04-10-2005, 02:02 PM

After the second draw Hero has 23456. Lets assume that the first draw there were no paired cards, and no aggressive actions by any players so far in the hand.

1) Which card is the ideal discard if the player is first to act?
2) 1) Which card is the ideal discard if the player is last to act?
3) How does the decisions change when facing a large field of opponents?

I assume that you'd always toss the 6, and be drawing smoothest at whatever you hit. You've already got a straight to the deuce, so whatever you toss will give you a 3-card gutshot to re-straightening (except tossing the deuce). So basically, you want to toss the highest card.

I'm not sure where you're going with this question. Are you trying to analyze the contents of the stub? Are you asking about the mathematics of drawing?

By "no aggressive actions," do you mean no bets or raises? Is this Limit?

The Hero is in the Big Blind and checks pre-first draw, hence he starts out of the box without a duce, 3 or 4. After the first draw Hero has 566789. The action is checked around prior to the second draw.

Too many cards.

Luv2DriveTT · #3 04-10-2005, 02:16 PM

Please correct the hand in question #2 to 56789. An extra 6 creeped in there by accident. My typing really sucks.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Luv2DriveTT · #4 04-10-2005, 02:22 PM

The game in question would be a limit game. By no aggressive actions I mean no pre-draw or 1st draw raises.. a standard passive or semi-passive hand.

I am not trying to analyze the contents of the stub here, the questions are more related to position than anything.

Think of it this way, with only one draw remaining does it make more sence to play on with the intention of dropping the 6 in the 3rd draw, or when do the conditions tell you it is time to fold? The hero is essentially drawing for 4 cards to the second nuts, or an additional 4 cards to draw to an 85 if so. Against a raise or even a 3-bet I don't know if its safe to continue on the third draw. Also perhaps it is wiser to discard a different card such as the 4 (however I would assume the 6 is the correct discard).

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

TheShootah · #5 04-10-2005, 04:23 PM

There really isn't enough information in these things to give any good ideas.

I think no matter where I was I would toss the 6 for #1. Just keep in mind that when you are in early EP, you need to draw as smooth as possible. In all the situations I would toss the 6.

#2, Uhh...There really isn't enough information. If you are against one guy in late position drawing two or something I might just toss the 9 and hope to check the hand to a showdown or something. Against many opponents I would toss two or 3 to the smoothest draw and hope for a miracle, folding to any bets. #2 is a hideously bad hand no matter how you draw really. When there are more people in you need to draw smooth but heads up it really depends on what position you are in and how many the others draw. That is a key piece of info left out.

timprov · #6 04-11-2005, 02:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
After the second draw Hero has 23456. Lets assume that the first draw there were no paired cards, and no aggressive actions by any players so far in the hand.

1) Which card is the ideal discard if the player is first to act?
2) 1) Which card is the ideal discard if the player is last to act?
3) How does the decisions change when facing a large field of opponents?

[/ QUOTE ]

Small pot, you should be folding this a lot. If you drew one and get bet into, fold. If you drew 3 and get bet into by someone who drew more than 1, a call may be worthwhile. Don't call 2. In all situations if you play to the third draw, you should drop the 6.

[ QUOTE ]
The Hero is in the Big Blind and checks pre-first draw, hence he starts out of the box without a duce, 3 or 4. After the first draw Hero has 56789. The action is checked around prior to the second draw.

1) Which card is the ideal discard if the player is first to act?
2) 1) Which card is the ideal discard if the player is last to act?
3) How does the decisions change when facing a large field of opponents?

[/ QUOTE ]

In order to ask this question, you have to be thinking about the game badly.

Luv2DriveTT · #7 04-11-2005, 02:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The Hero is in the Big Blind and checks pre-first draw, hence he starts out of the box without a duce, 3 or 4. After the first draw Hero has 56789. The action is checked around prior to the second draw.

1) Which card is the ideal discard if the player is first to act?
2) 1) Which card is the ideal discard if the player is last to act?
3) How does the decisions change when facing a large field of opponents?

[/ QUOTE ]

In order to ask this question, you have to be thinking about the game badly.

[/ QUOTE ]

My question wasn't presented in the best way (copy-paste, a 3 min rush job before lunch), I see your point. Let me ask you this then instead...

a) If I have an aggresor betting into me heads up drawing 1 or 0 cards should I stand pat with the rough 9, should I fold, or should I discard the 9? What about when I am last to act in a multi-way pot and the aggressor is first to act (lets assume there are 3 callers to make the question easier to answer)

b) Same as above, except this time it is checked through before the second draw. Should I bet here? I would assume I should stand pat... if not, what should I do?

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Chris Daddy Cool · #8 04-11-2005, 06:05 AM

hand 1 with the 23456 tossing the 6 is play in any of the situations you provided, there is no advantage to getting rid of your 4 low only to end up drawing rough.

hand 2 is just a really really crappy hand and i wouldn't be too interested in doing anything with it. if you're HU i suppose you can ditch the 9 and hope a really nasty rough low if you hit a deuce or a three but it'll be tough to win this out of position not knowing how many cards your opponent is dumping. multiway, i'd dump as many cards as possible and hope for the miracle nuts.

timprov · #9 04-11-2005, 10:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My question wasn't presented in the best way (copy-paste, a 3 min rush job before lunch), I see your point. Let me ask you this then instead...

a) If I have an aggresor betting into me heads up drawing 1 or 0 cards should I stand pat with the rough 9, should I fold, or should I discard the 9? What about when I am last to act in a multi-way pot and the aggressor is first to act (lets assume there are 3 callers to make the question easier to answer)

b) Same as above, except this time it is checked through before the second draw. Should I bet here? I would assume I should stand pat... if not, what should I do?

[/ QUOTE ]

a) you drew 2, or more? Obviously if someone drew 1 they're going to bet into you no matter what they caught, and you should almost certainly fold. If you somehow happen to be in a five-way pot, you might be able to call and drop the 89. I wouldn't ever call and drop just the nine, and I'd very rarely call and drop just the eight. (Only against a maniac or SCfuji.)

b) of course you shouldn't check and stand pat, you have a straight. (Plus you really shouldn't ever check and stand pat in position.) If it gets checked through, presumably nobody drew 1 on the first draw, so dropping just the 8 is probably the best option. If you make a 9, are in position against typical player(s), and it gets checked to you after the second draw, you can bet-fold and take a free showdown. If you're not in position, drop the 89 and pray.

You really really need to stop the first-level thinking in TD though. I suppose if you're really in a game where there are regularly five-handed pots it's not so bad, though.

Gabe · #10 04-12-2005, 03:34 AM

1. toss the 6 no matter what.
2. not enough info. how many opponents? how many did they draw? how many did you draw? (i assume you were in the BB and you drew 3.) these things are more important, as far as draws are concerned. position is more important for betting, raising, and calling decisions. when you have a close drawing decision, in last posistion, you have to consider how many you opponents drew.