20/40 pound hand: playing possible 2nd best hand v. dead cards

[CarlosChadha]

Hi All,

20/40 pound game with a weird 1 ante, 10 bring in, 3 rake. Given the supper low ante I play this game squeeky tight, but most other people don't, and it plays like the average 10/20 game on Party (1 or 2 tight agro, 2-3 tight passive, 2-3 loose passive and the occasional maniac). I had just entered the table and didn't really recognize many of the players. Since I had just sat down, I don't think people were to aware of the fact that I was playing very tight. The only thing I knew is that seats 4 was very agressive and somewhat loose but good player. I have listed the hand history below and will give you my thoughs on each street as after a couple of people comment.

Seat 1: (£540.79 in chips)
Seat 2: (£239.25 in chips)
Seat 3: (£997.75 in chips)
Seat 4: (£989 in chips)
Seat 5: (£1729.94 in chips)
Hero: (£654.41 in chips)

3rd St:
seat 1 [4s] - fold
seat 2 [Jh] - call 20
seat 3 [Jd] - call 20
seat 4 [3h] - bring in 10 - call 20
seat 5 [6h] - fold
Hero [8d 8s As] - raise to 20
pot: 83 (after 3 rake), 4 players

4th St:
seat 2 [Jh][3c] - bet 20
seat 3 [Jd][3s] - call 20
seat 4 [3h][7h] - fold
Hero [8d 8s As][4h] - check - call 20
pot: 143, 3 players

5th St:
seat 2 [Jh][3c][9s] - bet 40
seat 3 [Jd][3s][7c] - call 40
Hero [8d 8s As][4h][9h] - check - call 40
pot: 263, 3 players

6th St:
seat 2 [Jh][3c][9s][5s] - bet 40
seat 3 [Jd][3s][7c][Kc] - call 40
Hero [8d 8s As][4h][9h][7d] - check - call 40
pot: 383, 3 players

7th St:
seat 2 [Jh][3c][9s][5s][x] - raise to 80 - call all-in 38.75
seat 3 [Jd][3s][7c][Kc][x] - fold
Hero [8d 8s As][4h][9h][7d][8h] - bet 40 - raise to 120

I think that there are some pretty difficult decisions on every street, so this should make for a good thread.

Thanks,
Carlos

[Andy B]

Hand histories are hard to read. I'm guessing that greenage's converter doesn't work for whatever site this is, but you should still convert your hand to a narrative. It will make it easier to read, and you'll get more and better responses.

I like the completion on third. I hate that you went into check-call mode after that. You raised with an Ace in the door. They have dead door cards. Why check? I would bet fourth and fifth and re-evaluate on sixth.

Since seat 2 was driving from fourth street on, I would probably have gone for a check-raise on the river. Having bet out and gotten raised, I like the three-bet, especially since he can't raise again, being all-in.

[jon_1van]

[ QUOTE ]
like the completion on third. I hate that you went into check-call mode after that

[/ QUOTE ]

I frequently will keep pounding away if its heads up. But I can't see both opponents folding do to continued pressure. Espically when you caught an offsuit 4. If they were willing to run the risk that you had AA on 3rd...I bet they are gonna be more willing to run that risk when you catch an offsuit 4.

What are you trying to accomplish? It seems pretty risky to continue firing when you got 2 callers. Although in general once I take the lead I generally keep betting if I don't see my oppponents improve. Sometimes it works..sometimes it doesn't

Am I missing something?

[jon_1van]

All seems fine to me.

Except for maybe the river. Do you think the river bet will be interpreted by the opponent as your last ditch effort for the pot and thus raise you? If I were in your opponents shoes I would have you pretty solidly on smaller pocket pair because you continue to call after you got 2 offsuit cards and you raised 3rd. So if I were your opponent I would think your river bet represents either trip Xs or Aces up. Aces up being much more likely. So when you are raised on the river I'm not sure I make it 3 bets.

But doing so isn't too bad because as Andy pointed out (I didn't notice this) you can't be raised. And this might mean that the river raise was made with the thought process "screw it...lets go home broke or make some money".

P.S.

The 3rd street raise is much more palatable when you are kinda shorthanded and the only 2 people who have decent up cards have them duplicated.

[Michael Emery]

[ QUOTE ]

I like the completion on third. I hate that you went into check-call mode after that. You raised with an Ace in the door. They have dead door cards. Why check? I would bet fourth and fifth and re-evaluate on sixth.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is my only complaint as well. You raised third (which I like) then check on fourth when they both caught dead rags. Then you check again on fifth when they still haven't shown anything threatening. If you want to take a possible free card on sixth thats one thing, but I hate the check calling up until then.

If a hand is worth calling and your first to act, its better to just bet it yourself even if you might reason your slightly behind. What if you made a open pair of 4's on fifth or sixth street? If you had been aggressive up until now and kept the lead your opponents would fold hands you want them to like any pair over 8's. But now they call confident that its not aces up. There are more reasons then I will go into about why you should keep the lead in a hand like this. Another thing about this hand is that its possible your 8's could be the best hand. Strait draws and flush draws that both just bricked arent out of the realm are they? If they both have Jacks even better as your a huge 45/27/27 favorite over them. Any pair lower than aces, higher then 8's, like (KK)J/(QQ)J your essentially even money as they now have two dead cards to work with. Anyway you look at it your hand is far too strong to check-call for many reasons.

Mike Emery

[MVicuna]

Hi,

Because they very well could have draws that they will fold on 5th if they go blank blank, a Pocket pair under J they plan on folding 5th.

He also has a hand he'll call a bet with, why not bet and give yourself two ways to win? Catching good or them catching bad and folding.

Later,
MarkV.

[MVicuna]

Hi,

Curiousity has gotten the better of me. Where was this game played? I thought nobody outside of the US spread stud. What it an online game?

Thanks,
MarkV.

[LA_Price]

If i read it right you complete third and then go into a protective shell when your opponents catch bad cards. I'd have just kept betting until one of them played back at me.
If you're going to call it is infinetely better to bet because that may win you the pot immedietly. River raise seems standard especially with an almost all-in opponent.

[Andy B]

Both of the Jacks have caught terrible cards. With three-flushes or three-straights, they might be induced to fold, if not on fourth, maybe on fifth. The bring-in was half-in so he might have called with a very weak hand. If it happens to have been a pair of Treys, his hand is very weak indeed. Carlos probably has the best hand on fourth. Even if he doesn't, he can continue to represent Aces, and possibly buy the pot on fifth street. Pocket Eights is a pretty good but very vulnerable hand. I wouldn't want to be giving out free cards. They can't fold if you don't bet.

[jon_1van]

I see where you're coming from. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt due to your greater experience (you also have a few supporters).

But, I'm still not 100% convinced that you'll be able to buy this pot despite the fact that the opponents might have week hands. I don't often see single bets, small ones or big ones, taking down 4 handed pots on 4th or 5th. But I play alot lower than this...so maybe that would explain some of my bias.


From my experience keeping the pot small has some merit. But it is very tempting to try to push out the Jacks.