10/20 NL Hand @ Stars ... KJs and a big pot

PokerForMath · #1 04-06-2005, 07:44 AM

Hi all, wondering how you would have played this hand? Pokerstars 10/20 NL Hand. It was late and I was too tired and I think I played it horribly (any advice on how to quit and not stay up all night?).

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $20 BB (9 handed) converter

CO ($768.50)
Button ($2755.50)
SB ($3236)
BB ($2237)
Hero ($863)
UTG+1 ($1027.50)
MP1 ($3201.50)
MP2 ($2424)
MP3 ($3253)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero calls $20, 3 folds, MP3 calls $20, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($80) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets $60, Hero calls $60, MP3 calls $60, SB folds.

Turn: ($260) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $150, MP3 folds, BB raises to $300, Hero raises to $783, BB calls $483.

River: ($1826) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: $1826

37offsuit · #2 04-06-2005, 08:44 AM

What are you ahead of here? Kc Xc?

The flop call is the mistake. You're giving MP3 great odds to see another card with many holdings. Raise to define your hand and accept the information that the raise gives you. You've got top pair with a decent kicker on a drawless board, so I'd look to take down a small pot here.

On the turn the BB check raises you the minimum. Sure smells like two pair or better to me. I think there are very few hands you beat here. Those that you do beat right now will likely won't be of the 3 - 5 out variety, more likely 11 outs.

This is, unless you recently got caught betting because you sensed weakness only to have to lay it down.

I'm not a high NL player, just a student of the game, but I see friends who do play at these limits give back a long session win in one or two hands like this one.

PokerForMath · #3 04-06-2005, 08:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What are you ahead of here? Kc Xc?

The flop call is the mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree.

[ QUOTE ]
You're giving MP3 great odds to see another card with many holdings. Raise to define your hand and accept the information that the raise gives you. You've got top pair with a decent kicker on a drawless board, so I'd look to take down a small pot here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree again. Should have raised on the flop and folded to a re-raise or slowed down to a call. But how do I avoid getting outplayed here?

Loci · #4 04-06-2005, 09:00 AM

Yeah... I don't mind the flop bet, but you overcommitted to a pot that you can't be ahead of on the turn. He's not on a draw, he's not on QQ-10/10, While he might be on K/10 if you have a proper amount of brownie points being saved up with God, you probably should just run away and pray for world peace instead.

turnipmonster · #5 04-06-2005, 10:09 AM

I disagree very strongly with your flop advice.

[ QUOTE ]

Raise to define your hand and accept the information that the raise gives you.

[/ QUOTE ]

!? defining your hand seems like a bad idea to me in general, and by raising you are also doing lots of other stuff like building the pot. I cannot imagine thinking that I should raise so I can define my hand to my opponents.

[ QUOTE ]

You've got top pair with a decent kicker on a drawless board, so I'd look to take down a small pot here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would be looking to play a small pot, sure. raising the flop and hoping everyone folds seems like a bad plan with a K. it seems like a better plan if he had the nut low, and thinks he has a lot of folding equity. raising the flop is not going to help anyone play a small pot.

--turnipmonster

freemoney · #6 04-06-2005, 10:23 AM

yeah you cant raise this flop, checking the turn is the way to keep the pot small.

-Skeme- · #7 04-06-2005, 10:27 AM

What's the BB min-raising you with that you can beat? And what's he going to call your re-raise with that isn't well ahead of you already? And how often do you limp in UTG with hands like KJs?

-Skeme

freemoney · #8 04-06-2005, 10:29 AM

i play 6-max so its different but i dont think limping with KJs UTG is bad in a full game i would do it at least.

-Skeme- · #9 04-06-2005, 10:33 AM

Yeah, not saying it's bad, just wondering how often he does it. And perhaps what other hands he does it with other than pairs. I don't do it, I find KJ and hands like it to be harder to play postflop, although my postflop game isn't exactly what I'd call superior. I'd probably get myself into more trouble than good with hands such as KJ and the like. And if I did play it, UTG at a full table would be probably the last place.. that is without any read on the table, heh.

PokerForMath · #10 04-06-2005, 10:40 AM

I don't do it off, but to mix up my game I do. Here is a bit more detail. This guy was definitely loose at times. He had moved in on my with A9 when I had AQ and I had called him down and one a $2000 pot earlier in the session. He was prone at times to play weak hands so I thought his min raise might have been a with K-weak. Unfortunately, the only thing that was weak was my reasoning and my discipline!