Too loose?

Chaostracize · #1 03-28-2005, 03:53 PM

No reads. Should I have just folded after the flop min-raise? I felt like my implied odds were just too good here. And once both players pushed, I have to call this, correct?

Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter

UTG+1 ($390)
UTG+2 ($392.8)
MP1 ($411.2)
MP2 ($645)
MP3 ($771.3)
Hero ($395.2)
Button ($589.5)
SB ($363.1)
BB ($398)
UTG ($396)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
3 folds, MP1 raises to $8, 1 fold, MP3 calls $8, Hero calls $8, Button calls $8, SB (poster) calls $6, 1 fold.

Flop: ($44) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, MP1 bets $30, MP3 raises to $60, Hero calls $60, Button folds, SB folds, MP1 raises to $281.8, MP3 calls $703.30 (All-In), Hero calls $327.20 (All-In), MP1 calls $121.40 (All-In).

Turn: ($1597.70) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 3 all-in)

River: ($1597.70) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players, 3 all-in)

Final Pot:

AZK · #2 03-28-2005, 03:57 PM

It's fine assuming you don't put either on a set, it's a 2:1 draw to hit and you are getting slightly better than that with the all-in call. What would have been your plan for the turn if it was a brick after smooth calling the minraise?

radioheadfan · #3 03-28-2005, 04:00 PM

You had roughly the right odds to call the all-in, but I'm not sure your overlay is very big. Plays like these just increase your variance.

Also when people are spewing chips into a flop like this you have to reconsider whether you think all your clubs are still live. You also nned to consider the that chance you're up against a set, meaning you could hit on the turn and still lose on the river.

Again, folding and calling are rougly equal here, with the benefit that folding has zero variance and calling has insane variance.

Call if you like the feeling of raking in a huge pot after hitting the nuts on the river.

maranello11 · #4 03-28-2005, 04:01 PM

I like a fold, possible set over set. I dont think top pair is pushing here. Maybe two pair, but still behind good amount of time and plus the board pairs up.

phil_ivey_fan · #5 03-28-2005, 04:04 PM

fold the flop.

or call the $60 and then fold to the reraise...

In the end, you were getting close to 3.5to1 on your money... so its a gamble...

fold on the flop after the raise to 60$

Chaostracize · #6 03-28-2005, 08:52 PM

Calling the 60 and folding to the re-raise is the worst possible play I could have made.

Set over set is a hand I would much rather see than one set and a one pair hand.

There is definite pros to making this play for image reasons.

As it turned out I was up against AQo and AA, all my club outs were live, and I did not hit. (Even with a T on the turn giving me a gutshot, d'oh!).

THATWACOKID · #7 03-28-2005, 09:05 PM

if you are getting 3.5 to 1 on your money then I think it is a good call. Poker is gambling and i don't think you can fold this when you are getting 3.5 to 1 odds on a 2 to 1 draw. Does anyone think like i do on this one?

BoxTree · #8 03-29-2005, 05:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
if you are getting 3.5 to 1 on your money then I think it is a good call. Poker is gambling and i don't think you can fold this when you are getting 3.5 to 1 odds on a 2 to 1 draw. Does anyone think like i do on this one?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
You had roughly the right odds to call the all-in, but I'm not sure your overlay is very big. Plays like these just increase your variance.

Also when people are spewing chips into a flop like this you have to reconsider whether you think all your clubs are still live. You also nned to consider the that chance you're up against a set, meaning you could hit on the turn and still lose on the river.

Again, folding and calling are rougly equal here, with the benefit that folding has zero variance and calling has insane variance.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've bolded the parts that might shake your confidence that you're actually on a 2:1 draw. I definitely do not think like you on this one.

kagame · #9 03-29-2005, 12:09 PM

i would be very worried about a hand like 9Tc, and a set reduces your outs considerably; both together and youre up [censored] creek without a paddle

FOR WACOKID:
however, since you know youre going to turn some sort of a gutshot FOR MORE GLORIOUS NUT OUTS because you have ESP and also know for certain all your clubs are live, WHY NOT GAMBLE?

on second thought, use that ESP to peer into the future and see if the club hits for ya, yep that would definitely be the best line here

iceman5 · #10 03-29-2005, 12:21 PM

The majority of hands I see like this, someone has a set. Since you hadnt even put any money in the pot yet (besides preflop), I wouldve folded.

Once you called the $60 then yeah, I wouldve called the all in.