Am I the only one here who.....

[Alobar]

Obviously another thread is the impetus for this one, but I'm getting the impression that there are a significant number of people who have two "different" aspects of poker lumped into one catagory. "making money" and "learning". Most of my posts just turn into a bunch of babble and prolly degrade into little sesnse, so I'll try and do a good job of explaining what I mean [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Alot of it I guess could be perspective, I play poker as my sole source of income, so I have a different agenda than somone who doesn't. For example, I'll sit down and 4 table, with PV loaded and im basically an auto pilot, I may even have the TV or my stereo on or im chatting on AIM, and I do these things to overcome the burnout or boredom that playing a long session causes. I do this because I HAVE to put in the hours, because I have to eat and buy fancy crap I don't need. I'm still taking notes, and thinking about certain decisions, so I'm still learning, but obviously not as well as I could be.


Since this approach does little for my advancement as a poker player, I ruitinely take an hour out of my day, at some point far seperated in time wise from my "grinding" session and just play 2 tables and work of playing good poker. I'm not concered about winning or loseing, just making good reads and how im evaluating my decisions

So I guess my original question, am I the only one who seperates the two? Am I somehow misguided in this approach? Is finding a better balance between learning and earning and incorporating that into every session I play, a better plan of attack?? I don't think so, but I'm not unable to be convinced otherwise.

Anyone have any thoughts?

[MAxx]

sounds fine to me.

the only thing i would like to say is: i doubt that your are not learning, not reading plays, and not growing while 4 tabling. you maybe doing so at a lesser rate than one or 2 tabling, but i think it would be incorrect/be discounting too much to say you are not improving your game at all.

[naphand]

I second what Maxx says, and taking time especially to play more deeply is a very professional approach.

Personally I prefer to work a 1-day-a-week job to pay the bills and then keep the poker money for what I want. Another alternative is to explain to your girlfriend that work experience is valuable experience, and then move in with her when she gets a job....

[J.R.]

I'm not a pro so what I type may not be helpful, although I do play for extra income. My best learning study happenes off the tables. I email myself hands that I am unsure about, and review them, saving the close one is a "journal" with my analysis and any simulation results, math, or research. I often research the 2+2 archives regularly, both in response to specific situations I recently encountered and by favorite posters or general topics. I also make lots of charts and review playing standards v. various player profiles in various situations.

I also try to sit down and play when I am rested, calm and energized so I can take great notes and really think through my spots and identify problemeatic areas or uncertainties- but I don't solve these on the spot, only afterwards. The ability to not play is the biggest difference between me and you, although I do put in a lot of hours for someone with a full time job. There are diminishing returns in regards to your improvement when you have played a lot of hands, becuase experience is the big thing you gain from playing, so there isn't too much you can do other than play higher or play a different game or study more off the table after you have played a lot. I can't play less than my normal tables at my normal stakes and not get bored without new ideas, so most of my learning happens after reflection away from the tables, where I try to tweak my game and then conciously apply those tweaks the next time I play. Having new ideas and new approaches is what keeps the game fresh for me.

[rory]

If you play less often but pay more attention more you will win more so you have to play less so you won't have to be distracted when you play because you aren't playing as much, so you could win more, so you have to play less, and so on and so on.

[J.R.]

perhaps, but if he plays well most of the time its unlikely he is missing much, so the extra return through reduced play may be fairly de minimis (maybe 1-2 sb per/hour, although this my be a high estimate), especially if his hourly rate is as high as I imagine it would be based on his posts.

[MAxx]

[ QUOTE ]
If you play less often but pay more attention more you will win more so you have to play less so you won't have to be distracted when you play because you aren't playing as much, so you could win more, so you have to play less, and so on and so on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Next week I test this rule. I will play only one hand with great concentration and see if I make as much as I did last week. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[xpander]

Recently I've come to a balance between the two - learning and making money. I'm beginning to read these boards during the day; posting analysis, learning/teaching concepts, studying close hands, and studying how the more respected posters analyze the game. Like J.R., in the past I've emailed myself hands and posted them in a blog with analysis. I thought this was pretty helpful. And at night, I'm 66% grinding it out, and 33% studying. I 4-table (but am capable of 8-tabling) while reading the boards and emailing myself hands for analysis after my session. I've also found that having SSHE/TOP/HFPAP lying around on my desk turns boredom into productivity.

I think most players give up on learning too quickly. A lot of players settle down anywhere between 1/2 and 3/6 and just grind it out, dreaming of 15/30 - they really should be taking stabs at higher limits with money they can lose, posting here, and reading and rereading poker literature.

[mindflayer]

I find an interesting comparison with your question and say running a long (build it/ race it) go cart race with a lawnmower motor.

If the race were say LA to NY and you had to build your cart by hand, How long should you spend building and fine tuning your cart before you started to race it?

Most poker players have a cart that can go 5mph and believe the best way to the finish line is to run the cart longer.
Very few do all the studying/building right at the start to get a 25mph cart. Besides they usually need to test it for a few 100 m to see if the wheels fall off or not. Then they have to re-evaluate if the wheel came off because they built it wrong or if they just were driving in bad weather/and or hit a pot hole.

I like to think of poker as as a race with no set finish line and every month a pit stop where you can fine tune your cart, get spare parts, oil up, gas up, and get better wheels.

BTW isn't reading =4 a form of studying/ improving your game?? or are you talking about a separate skill (reading hands) only available while you are playing?

Mindflayer

[xpander]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW isn't reading =4 a form of studying/ improving your game?? or are you talking about a separate skill (reading hands) only available while you are playing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I was referring specifically to reading 2+2 books as a form of studying.

I like your analogy. I'm always interested in learning curves regarding different subjects, especially poker. I think it's pretty clear in poker that the long run is what matters most, so those who took the time out early on to tune their go-karts to 25 mph will benefit much more than those stuck at 5 mph.