Folding TT to a turn raise

Isura · #1 03-16-2005, 05:31 PM

Seemed like the right thing to do at the moment. Looking back, I feel it folding might be too weak. Slightly ahead or way behind here? Comments appreciated. Sorry, just joined table so no reads.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, Button raises, Hero folds ???

Entity · #2 03-16-2005, 05:34 PM

In shorthanded play, I'm calling this down more often. I think in this situation I'd probably call down barring another 8 or a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] falling on the river, but it's close.

If he's loose passive, I think it's a good fold. Otherwise I'd probably call down and take a note.

Rob

flopwell · #3 03-16-2005, 05:36 PM

Looks like TPWK spiking a set to me. Without reads, I believe I woulda folded too.

Isura · #4 03-16-2005, 05:59 PM

I'm correct to call down if the 3rd player folds ? (ie bet, fold, raise) Since it went bet, call, raise I thought I should have given villian credit for his hand.

Shillx · #5 03-16-2005, 06:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm correct to call down if the 3rd player folds ? (ie bet, fold, raise) Since it went bet, call, raise I thought I should have given villian credit for his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the key. Calling this down in a protected pot is very wrong imo.

Brad

Entity · #6 03-16-2005, 06:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm correct to call down if the 3rd player folds ? (ie bet, fold, raise) Since it went bet, call, raise I thought I should have given villian credit for his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the key. Calling this down in a protected pot is very wrong imo.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

Not when there's a strong likelihood of the other player calling down with a draw.

I see a lot of players who will play a hand like A8 this way, or even an occasional flush draw. If the player is known to be passive, like I said, I like a fold, but against an unknown I think calling down is ok. It's certainly not "very" wrong.

Rob

btspider · #7 03-16-2005, 06:26 PM

it is tough to quantify of course, but certainly the caller in the middle decreases the likelihood of a bluff raise. further, if the middle player has a draw (plus one overcard on average probably), then even if we are currently best we'll be passed on the river significantly more often than if its HU and we were best.

i don't mind a fold here.

added (unrelated to this hand): make a clark post..

FreakDaddy · #8 03-16-2005, 06:54 PM

If he's alert at all it's a good raise by villian on the turn. I would call in this situation though and check/call a bet on the river, unless a heart or other broadwway falls, then I might fold.

Entity · #9 03-16-2005, 07:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
decreases the likelihood of a bluff raise

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is, I don't think it's a "bluff" raise very often from the opponents eyes. I think you're going to get raised by hands like 2PTK here a lot because with the King, an average opponent will increase the value of his holding appropriately.

I'd call the turn raise in these situations (against an unknown) and see what the river brings before I decide on the river. Calling the turn doesn't default me to calling the river, FWIW (and consequently can be, at the worst, about a .5BB mistake given my 5% equity against even Trip Kings).

Rob

Chris Daddy Cool · #10 03-16-2005, 07:40 PM

folding is fine.