A8s 13 outs, gets CR'd on river

DavidC · #1 02-23-2005, 03:30 PM

I'm of the opinion that the preflop and the flop are fine. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

UTG is a LAP, UTG+1 is SLPP.

Two questions here, though:

1) With 13 outs, should I have taken the free card? I didn't think they would fold...

2) I'm looking for a little support or derision for my river call. I debated raising for like 15 seconds before I called. I figured that AJ or A9 were likely hands to wake up on the river with a check-raise.

Any comments?

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Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, 3 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, CO folds, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (8.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, Hero calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 13.75 BB

Womble · #2 02-23-2005, 03:37 PM

You have to call. He has probably hit a good A but you have 2 pair to beat that.

The turn bet is debatable though. You have 2nd pair and are probably behind to a 9. I would take the free card to try and get the flush. There are not enough players to bet for value on your flush draw

einbert · #3 02-23-2005, 03:37 PM

PF is fine at a LP table, flop is fine too.

On the turn, I'm taking the free card more often than not. You've got a lot of outs but you don't want to be checkraised here because you probably don't have the best hand. If you had checked here you probably would've gotten bet into on the river (when you did hit one of your outs) and you would've been able to raise it up.

On the river, it's pretty close between a three-bet and just calling. But these are loose-passive opponents, so they probably have a good hand to raise you on the river after you've been betting the whole way. They might have made a better aces up or just a pair of aces. I just call since you're _usually_ going to get that last extra BB from UTG when he calls the raise, but you'll probably lose two more BB when you're behind and UTG will fold a lot more often then as well.

zeropotential · #4 02-23-2005, 03:41 PM

Preflop: I like limping from UTG+2 with A8s... especially with 2 already in

Flop: Raise because you you have pot equity with your middle pair and nut flush draw thats going to come in 35% of the time and on top of all this you could buy the button.

Turn: Bad card. Overcard and it dosn't complete your flush. Since your button purchase succeeded, I Check.

River: So your flop draw didn't come through... but you did hit 2 pair. After its checked to you bet, theres no other option here. After UTG+1 raises I would 3-bet... I think you're good here 66% of the time.
(Am I crazy for thinking this?)

jba · #5 02-23-2005, 03:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]

1) With 13 outs

[/ QUOTE ]
Okay I'm trying to work on this, but my thoughts on your outs are 2 8s, 9 clubs, and 3 aces. Are you discounting an Ace? The ace seems strong here, the only way it's beat is A9. This isn't a comment on your play, this is a question from me to you and the field. I'm trying to work on properly discounting outs. thanks.

[ QUOTE ]

2) I'm looking for a little support or derision for my river call. I debated raising for like 15 seconds before I called. I figured that AJ or A9 were likely hands to wake up on the river with a check-raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

AJ seems unlikely with his line on the turn, I'd think he'd bet out or c/r with AJ here. I could easily put villain on something like A7. On the otherhand utg looks ripe for overcalling (looks like it turned out to be busted flush though). I'd probably take your line.

Entity · #6 02-23-2005, 04:07 PM

I would probably check the turn, but I think it's pretty close. 4-handed I'd probably bet it, but a lot of the possible holdings for a flop bettor either just pulled ahead (JT), or are still ahead (weak 9's, etc.). If you think he's aggro enough to bet the flop with a wide range of hands, I think betting the turn is fine.

Rob

DavidC · #7 02-23-2005, 04:40 PM

Very good point re: the second caller!

DavidC · #8 02-23-2005, 04:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Okay I'm trying to work on this, but my thoughts on your outs are 2 8s, 9 clubs, and 3 aces. Are you discounting an Ace?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, I subtracted the ace of clubs (whoops). 14 outs. Didn't mean to confuse you. AJ beats me here too but I have to agree with you that a J would have popped me on the turn.

wabe · #9 02-24-2005, 08:33 PM

I would take a free card on the turn.

On the river, I think a 3-bet would be excellent, but I would likely call as well. You're only behind to AJ/A9 or a poorly played set, but passive players don't check/raise very often.

grayhawk · #10 02-24-2005, 08:42 PM

I like the free card on the turn. You bought the button on the flop, so you deserved to take it. I think it is a VERY close decision, though. It might depend on how my opponents have seen me in this situation previously. I think you have to mix it up so you don't get into a pattern that can be detected.