A wee bit too aggressive with a pair of threes?

Harv72b · #1 02-23-2005, 01:10 AM

MP3 is an unknown & new to the table. CO is one of those crazy fish types that I can't read for the life of me--his flop raise could have been top pair, bottom pair, an overpair, a flush draw, a backdoor straight draw, or anything in between.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 4 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG folds, MP3 calls, CO raises, Button folds, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP3 calls, CO folds.

River: (9.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets...

Fat Nicky · #2 02-23-2005, 01:18 AM

what made you bet into a 6 handed flop with just a pair of 3s?

I personally think you played this one wayyyyy too aggressively.

einbert · #3 02-23-2005, 02:45 AM

Yes, too aggressive. Don't bet the flop for one thing, and check/fold the turn.

chesspain · #4 02-23-2005, 02:49 AM

I would be checking, and likely folding the flop--and what's with the river bet? Do you expect to fold out a better hand, or do you think he'll call with his busted flush after you three-bet the flop and bet the turn?

tetonpete · #5 02-23-2005, 07:49 AM

check the flop and think long and hard about checkraising the button if it checks through to him...i think i fold even if the button bets. I would need a read on him before i check raised here. If CO has really been crazy, there is a greater chance that your check raise will be called by thinking players.There are six players. Your hand is not going to improve very often, and may be subject to redraws or a counterfeiting when it does. If one of their hands improves, you are in a bad spot.
you're out of position, which makes this much, much worse.

bcunha · #6 02-23-2005, 10:25 AM

They say there are no foolproof rules of thumb in poker. Betting into a field of 6 with bottom pair is an exception.

xxxxx · #7 02-23-2005, 11:25 AM

What about with middle pair?

Harv72b · #8 02-23-2005, 06:22 PM

Trying to reply to all the questions in one post...

Why I bet out the flop: Honestly, I just did. I'd love to say I thought through a whole bunch of things first, but it just felt right to bet it out at that instant, so that's what I did. When I only got one caller and then a raise from crazy CO, the 3-bet was both an attempt to isolate and and an attempt to show a better hand than I actually had...since I just checked through out of the BB, 2 pair is very possible, as is a flopped baby set.

With the river bet: MP3 had done nothing but call for the entire hand, which probably meant a busted flush draw. If I had a real hand then check/call would be vastly preferable, but I've still just got an overplayed pair of 3's...I want him to fold, not only if he has a better hand, but simply because I don't want to show my hand. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Why I didn't check/checkraise the flop: Again, I didn't really think about it more than reacted, but this is exactly the kind of flop that's likely to come back 2 bets to me, which I obviously can't call, let alone 3-bet (not that bet/3-bet is any better, but...). I had no doubt that someone would raise this flop, either with the flush draw or just overcards, so I figured I'd rather they were raising my bet than someone else's.

All that said, I'm well aware that my play was atrocious on this hand. I got bailed out when MP3 thought it over for several seconds before folding the river. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

ElSapo · #9 02-23-2005, 06:35 PM

If MP2 folded the river, you did not get bailed out -- you had the best hand.

Flop bet is bad, as everyone said. Flop three-bet is not as bad as the flop bet, for what that's worth.

Way too aggro, as you know. But you got lucky and caught someone on a draw, I imagine.

[ QUOTE ]
Why I bet out the flop: Honestly, I just did. I'd love to say I thought through a whole bunch of things first, but it just felt right to bet it out at that instant, so that's what I did

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes, when the flop is raggedy and I have raggedy cards, it seems like I connected better than I did (pair+draw, gutshot, and so on). In this case, however, your cards were more raggedy than the flop.

Eh. Happens.

molawn2mo · #10 02-23-2005, 09:22 PM

judging from the responses, here, i think it clear that you have earned some measure of respect from the forum. if i or others would have posted this hand with your ensuing commentary we would have heard the following:

1. go back to the micros where you belong
2. read a book
3. re-read a book

yada yada flaming yada yada

i believe that i recall your first post. see how much he's grown in so short a time.

anyway, i think that we have all taken a stab at a hand like this while sober or drunk.

congratulations, you lag.