Party 2/4 - JJ in LP

rewt75 · #1 02-15-2005, 01:32 PM

No reads...my first orbit

Any other way to play this given no reads?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (18.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (23.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, Button calls, UTG calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 31.25 BB

Fat Nicky · #2 02-15-2005, 01:33 PM

the only thing I would maybe do differently is go for overcalls at the river rather than raising.

pshabi · #3 02-15-2005, 01:52 PM

No, raise here on the river. It's party 2/4. He still got the overcalls. What happens if you call and one other person calls? You've won two bets. If you raise, you're guaranteed to get a call from the original bettor. That's at least two bets. Now, if you get overcallers like he did, you get mo bets.

Fat Nicky · #4 02-15-2005, 01:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No, raise here on the river. It's party 2/4. He still got the overcalls. What happens if you call and one other person calls? You've won two bets. If you raise, you're guaranteed to get a call from the original bettor. That's at least two bets. Now, if you get overcallers like he did, you get mo bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

the overcall accomplishes 2 things:

1. if your ahead you gain bets from people that would have folded for 2 bets.
2. prevent yourself from getting 3-bet by a better hand.

these two things combined make going for overcalls the play for me.

CallMeIshmael · #5 02-15-2005, 01:59 PM

You are very vulnerable. Call the flop raise, and wait until the turn to raise a good card (you got one!).

Entity · #6 02-15-2005, 02:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No, raise here on the river. It's party 2/4. He still got the overcalls. What happens if you call and one other person calls? You've won two bets. If you raise, you're guaranteed to get a call from the original bettor. That's at least two bets. Now, if you get overcallers like he did, you get mo bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

the overcall accomplishes 2 things:

1. if your ahead you gain bets from people that would have folded for 2 bets.
2. prevent yourself from getting 3-bet by a better hand.

these two things combined make going for overcalls the play for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

The river really didn't change anything with MP2's hand, though. If you were ahead on the turn (and given his turn action, it seems likely), I think it's best to raise the river here. What hands would MP2 play this way that you're behind?

Rob

chief444 · #7 02-15-2005, 02:09 PM

Nice hand. It looks to me like MP2 has 99 or TT and unless someone was just to scared to raise a straight or small flush your hand is good.

Rafael_Luiz · #8 02-15-2005, 02:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You are very vulnerable. Call the flop raise, and wait until the turn to raise a good card (you got one!).

[/ QUOTE ]

No, the reraise on the flop was correct, although I'd be very fearful of the cap. You can't rely on waiting to raise a good turn with only 2 jacks left in the deck. Also, i think the turn is what lost the hand for you, making somebody's low heart flush or straight. Is this true? The call on the river would be advised because with that board, your set is not good a lot of the time when it is capped 4-way on the flop.

Fat Nicky · #9 02-15-2005, 02:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The river really didn't change anything with MP2's hand, though. If you were ahead on the turn (and given his turn action, it seems likely), I think it's best to raise the river here. What hands would MP2 play this way that you're behind?

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

Good question and I agree with you. I still don't think going for overcalls is such a bad idea and in the long run will not make a whole lot of EV difference.

CallMeIshmael · #10 02-15-2005, 02:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No, the reraise on the flop was correct

[/ QUOTE ]

How does this hand differ so drastially from that on pg 187 of SSHE, as to change the correct flop action? Granted, there are differences, but the hands seem similar enough to have the advice apply here. This is the section of SSHE that has given me the biggest problems (in terms of when it applies).

Also, when I said a 'safe' card, I didn't mean a jack. I meant any non-heart/non-straight card/non-over card. And, I do feel given the flop action before you, IF you wait until the turn for a raise, you will be bet into a good deal of the time a blank hits.