Playing a pocket pair

[Ice]

Hi All

Here's a hand i played last night and wanted to get some input. The game is 10-20 with basically bad players except for one solid player and myself. I'm under the gun with pocket 33 and limp. The next guy limps as do two others and the big blind raises who can be aggressive and everyone calls.

There are 10 sb in the pot and the flop comes 852 rainbow. The bb bets i raise two people call and the big blind reraises and i muck. A set of 2's won the pot and the bb had QQ and paid off.

Was it worth raising with pocket three's in a decent size pot to see if you could thin the field to you and the bb?
Remember everyone limped except the bb implying they had junk and the bb could have easily had overcards who i could possibly get head up with in this decent size pot.All thoughts welcome. Ice

[danderso8]

In early position, 33 can be tossed, but if the game is full of bad players it can be played if they are the right kind of bad...loose passive. you don't want them overly aggressive, cause you can't stand up to too much aggression with that hand.

You mentioned that the game had one solid player, but don't mention whether he is involved in the pot or his position, so I'll assume it's one of the bad players who raised preflop. Even if bad, he probably has JJ or better, or maybe AK/AQ/AJ. That's 24 ways for him to have PP, and 48 ways for overs. That says you are ahead 2/3 of the time, and he has 6 outs twice to beat you. So you'll lose about 1/3 of those, putting you at about 2/9 to win, and that's only against this guy. If others call, you are farther back.

So I like your flop raise only if he has shown that he is really agro, would make this play with a wider range than I have suggested, and the others are somewhat tight postflop (and therefore likely to fold to your raise).

Once two others have called two cold, and BB reraises, there are 18 sb in the pot (20 if you count the ones who will likely call behind you). If you don't fear a 4bet behind you, you almost have pot odds to chase your 2-outer, and implied odds are surely good. So call here.

Even though your raise-to-thin plan didn't work, you need to remember to re-evaluate your plan each time the action is to you.

gl,
dan

[JAA]

Hi Ice...

1.) Based on the game deescription, I like your limp.
2.) I like the flop raise to charge unpaired hands 2 bets. Sometimes (as you said) you will end up heads up with the overcards of the BB, on whom you have position.
3.) I HATE HATE HATE the fold for one more bet. At that point, you are getting 21:1 on that last bet, assuming the 2 players behind you call (which you know they will). This does not even take into account implied odds. You have to make the call here, especially on a rainbow flop.

- Jags

[bobbyi]

From the flop three-bet, it's clear that you don't have the best hand at this point, but that doesn't mean you should fold. You have enough outs to justify calling one more bet and looking at the turn card, given the pot size.

[steveyz]

No, I fold that one post flop. Maybe if you were in later position and no one had yet called the pfr's flop bet, you can raise, but with 3 people behind you, chances are someone hit something, and bad players aren't in a habit of folding top pair (or even 2nd pair).

[steveyz]

I think taking one off would be fine if hero was closing the action (or at least close to closing the action), but with 3 players behind, chances are good someone is gonna raise and BB will 3-bet. If the players behind you are passive enough that they'd never raise this flop, then you can considering taking one off.

[Ice]

Hi danderso8

I play any pocket pair almost in any position for one bet and if it's two bets to me i see who it is and how many people are in and might pay the two bets to see the flop.I find pocket pairs to be some of the most profitable and generally easiest hands to play.

The solid player was NOT involved on the flop and i should have mentioned that,thanks. I feel your right on in regards to calling the raise when it is one back to me since i was getting pot odds to call.I thought i made a mistake by not calling after the fact and you and the other posters confirmed that. Thanks for the input.Ice

[Ice]

Bobbyi

Your absolutely right as i posted above i should have made the call since i had pot odds to call. Thanks Ice

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
I think taking one off would be fine if hero was closing the action (or at least close to closing the action), but with 3 players behind, chances are good someone is gonna raise and BB will 3-bet. If the players behind you are passive enough that they'd never raise this flop, then you can considering taking one off.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's refering to after the raise/3bet action

[Brom]

[ QUOTE ]
In early position, 33 can be tossed, but if the game is full of bad players it can be played if they are the right kind of bad...loose passive. you don't want them overly aggressive, cause you can't stand up to too much aggression with that hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. Low pocket pairs require a different type of game for them to be optimally played. One would want a game where you can get in cheap preflop (1 or 2 bets), with many people (hopefully 5+) in each average pot. Furthermore one would like the game to be more aggressive postflop, not passive. One needs to be able to flop a set and have opponents go off for many bets to make up for the lack of preflop odds one was getting. Passive games are better for suited connector type hands as one will more often get to see the later streets for cheap with good draws.

Also for the OP, I don't personally like to limp in in EP with a low pocket pair. Unless you can pretty much assure yourself of 5 other limpers coming in, or if the game fits the above mentioned criteria. I fold them here as I feel that used to be a leak in my game. I do have a friend who plays most any pocket pair from any position (like I'm assuming you do) and he does it quite successfully, so if you can do it then more power to you. He advises raising them though if he is going to play them from early position.