wasnt sure what to do here. what would you do

MattC · #1 01-21-2005, 11:05 PM

the player betting on the turn is extremely loose passive.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, Hero raises, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero folds, UTG calls.

River: (10.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

Evan · #2 01-21-2005, 11:08 PM

No degree of loose-passiveness would make me fold.

People overvaluing reads based on PT stats seems to be a new trend around here.

Entity · #3 01-21-2005, 11:16 PM

I'm not folding this turn. It's very rare that I don't raise this turn, actually.

Rob

me454555 · #4 01-22-2005, 12:30 AM

Move down a level, that fold is awful. You've got an overpair on the turn and the board looks drawless outside of a flushdraw.

I'd pop him on the turn and check the river if I really trust my read.

craig r · #5 01-22-2005, 01:00 AM

Another reason to raise here would be to protect your hand against UTG. If he has an ace (like AT) he needs to pay to catch it on the river.

craig

DemonDeac · #6 01-22-2005, 01:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Move down a level, that fold is awful. You've got an overpair on the turn and the board looks drawless outside of a flushdraw.

I'd pop him on the turn and check the river if I really trust my read.

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto

private joker · #7 01-22-2005, 01:10 AM

Welcome back, Cinnamon wind!

Seriously, this fold is horrific. Even if you're behind to some wacky 2 pair, you have the odds to draw and improve.

jonahmavesin · #8 01-22-2005, 01:23 AM

Please keep playing 2/4. And tell me your screen name at Party.

(Better would be to drop down to .50/1.00 and go read Winning at Low Limit HoldEm by Lee Jones.)

StellarWind · #9 01-22-2005, 03:14 AM

Hey guys, enough with the abuse. We all make bad plays once in a while.

Matt, you made a mistake by folding. There is a really good chance this very loose/passive player has made some lame-brain two pair. Fear not because you have eight outs to a set or queens up (check it). It's also quite possible he is betting some weak pair to prevent you from taking a free card with AK. Many loose/bad players do this on a regular basis.

Call the turn because you have ample pot odds to draw a card. Then call the river because the pot is too big. You cannot be sure enough that you are beat because you only have to win about 1/11 of the time for calling the river to pay off.

Raising the turn is a possible alternative. Since your read is that you are probably behind I wouldn't do it. Even many of the dimmer lights can read this board well enough to realize that two pair is practically the nuts versus a PFR. I don't want to be 3-bet because I have to call and that's a huge loss. I also don't want to pay for a raise and then face another bet on the river anyway.

The concern about UTG is misplaced. He probably doesn't have many outs and the ones he has won't matter if I'm chasing. The money it will cost him to overcall the turn should fairly compensate me for the small risk of a suckout. I don't want to put in a -EV raise just to try and push him out of the pot. In fact, it's very possible that he doesn't intend to call anyway.

Against a more aggressive player or one prone to weak turn bets I would definitely raise. This is strictly player-dependent and you must decide for yourself.