When you're getting odds to call w/ any 2...

[ZeeJustin]

Prize payouts: 4500/2500/1800/1200. Note that we're already in the money.

***** Hand History for Game 1366092002 *****
NL Hold'em $1000 Buy-in + $65 Entry Fee Trny:8259991 Level:7 Blinds(200/400) - Thursday, December 30, 01:35:00 EDT 2004
Table Step 5 #983602 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 1: sukfukcombo ( $2940 )
Seat 3: Rhoden ( $4470 )
Seat 4: ZeeJustin ( $800 )
Seat 6: paul1114 ( $1790 )
Trny:8259991 Level:7
Blinds(200/400)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ZeeJustin [ Js 6d ]
paul1114 is all-In [1790]
sukfukcombo calls [1790].
Rhoden folds.
ZeeJustin folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Td, Ks, 7h ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9c ]
** Dealing River ** [ Qs ]
paul1114 shows [ 4c, 4d ] a pair of fours.
sukfukcombo shows [ 6s, 6c ] a pair of sixes.
paul1114 finished in fourth place and won $1200.
sukfukcombo wins 4180 chips from the main pot with a pair of sixes.
paul1114 has left the table.

[ddubois]

I wasn't sure that I beleived you had odds to call with 'any 2', so I checked PokerStove:

Hand 1: 36.3063 % [ 00.35 00.02 ] { AA-22, AKs-A8s, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs, AKo-A9o, KQo-KJo, QJo }
Hand 2: 44.8464 % [ 00.43 00.02 ] { AA-66, AKs-A9s, KQs-KJs, AKo-ATo, KQo }
Hand 3: 18.8473 % [ 00.18 00.00 ] { J6o }

Interesting indeed. However, I'm not sure I beleive you have odds to call with 'any 2' according to the ICM.

Note that even though you would have tripled up, the outcome here was still rather nice: You made $600 by folding, and tripling up may not have had any impact on your final placing.

[ZeeJustin]

What's ICM?

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
What's ICM?

[/ QUOTE ]

Independent Chip Model, a tool for calculating prize equity based on stack size. It disregards blind size and assumes that all the players are equally skilled.

For more info, check out this thread: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...mp;sb=5&o=

I'd be very interested in hearing your opinion on its usefulness.

[stocktrader23]

Being that party poker uses RNG and the board would have been different if you had called you can feel better knowing you most likely wouldn't have won.

[ZeeJustin]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd be very interested in hearing your opinion on its usefulness.


[/ QUOTE ]

It looks very useful. For most good poker players, it should be trivial to come up with a rough estimate by doing some basic algebra, but should at the very least save some time, and help w/ accuracy.

[UMTerp]

I think it may be useful for comtemplating an all-in decision in the earlyish stages, but I find that when the blinds get significant (200-400 and higher) and you're shorthanded, your postion relative to the blinds in the upcoming hand or two carries so much weight that it renders the ICM calculator pretty useless.

At the very least it's good for SNG newbies to play around with and learn the relative value of their stacks though.

[Myst]

Easy fold, because you gain real money EV by doing so, and tripling up does almost nothing for you.

[rybones]

[ QUOTE ]
Easy fold, because you gain real money EV by doing so, and tripling up does almost nothing for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

is this true? by my math, and assuming there is an anti here, if ZeeJustin calls he comes away with t3700 or t3800, and is now a close 2nd to the chip leader? did I miss something?

Ryan

[citanul]

Party does not have antes in these tournaments.

However, it is true that if Z triples here, it has quite an effect. I think that he would just over triple, to what, 2600 (which is not the same as 3800). Clearly there is a huge difference in the way he can play 3 handed 200/400 with 2600 versus 400 chips. So yeah, the statement that "tripling up does nothing for him" is blatantly false.

I think that it is interesting that even Party's mtt's have no antes. For a while I thought about starting a drive to push for them. But meh.

citanul