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#1
12-29-2004, 12:09 PM
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Preflop Bot
I am generally a lurker here, posted a few times. I am fearful of getting flamed but I trust the thoughts of most of the 2+2ers and respect your opinions, so I felt I should write this post and see what happens.
I have developed a Party Poker preflop bot; it does one thing and one thing only, it folds hands that, given the relevant circumstances, should be folded. Thats all it does; it does not call, check or raise; it does not know what the "flop" is and therefore does not play after the flop. My purpose in creating this was two-fold (pun intended): 1) it was an interesting project to do - I used the MS .net framework and 2) I thought it would be helpful to my game, and particularly for multi-tabling purposes, to not have to physically push the "fold" button all the time and to enforce a little discipline on me. The program right now is about 95% effective; there are a few bugs that will be easy to correct. It has proven to improve my discipline and it does make it easier to play multiple tables. My questions for the zoo are these: 1. Do you consider this ethical? I think it is because the computer does not process anything more difficult than I can process in my brain; the only advantage it gives me is the enforcement of discipline; and, quite frankly, it certainly does not provide me with anymore advantage than someone using PT or similar program. To me, it is different from an ethical perspective than a full-fledged bot. What do you think? 2. Do you think there is a market for this type of program? I have not used, nor will I use, Winholdem, but I do know that this program has a completely different purpose -- all it does it fold obvious folding hands. My fear about selling this to anyone is that if it became commonplace in any respect, Party would likely crack downa and stop it and since I have a day job, I wouldn't have time to do lots of rewrites; also, I don't want tables full of tight players. For this reason, if I decided to sell it, I would limit its distribution. Also, I would comply with all 2+2 advertising rules and policies; I'd let the zoo know it was avaialble and thats it. 3. Do you have any other thoughts on this idea? I'm sure someone else has done this already, but I haven't seen any similar posts. Thanks and please be kind (or flame away if the holidays are getting you down and need to relieve some tension). YoureToast 
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#3
12-29-2004, 12:18 PM
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Re: Preflop Bot
Noooooooooooooooooo!
Preflop is the reason that many people on this forum can make better than 1 bb/100. If this became widespread which is probably inevitable, the tables would simply become too tight for most of us to overcome the rake.
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#4
12-29-2004, 12:26 PM
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Re: Preflop Bot
Yes, and this is a big fear of mine....I would not let it become widespread and strictly limit the number of copies out there. Perhaps have some sort of subscription based license so when the limit it reached, those not renewing could be replaced by other interested parties. Trust me, I have a lot more interest in keeping the tables loose generally than in making money from this thing (although a little of both would be nice, no doubt.)
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#6
12-29-2004, 12:47 PM
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Re: Preflop Bot
Aside from the fact that I fear that this would make the tables very tight, I think it violates the anti-bot agreements with the poker rooms. While I see your point about the fact that this initial PF decision is a routine one requiring little thought, it is still a decision to be made by a person. I would guess that maybe you could write a program that gives you a recommendation as to folding PF or not, but doesn't actually do the action. Not sure if that violates the TOS or not. However, given PP's recent crackdown on winholdem and their ability to take screenshots, I wouldn't risk it. my $.02
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#8
12-29-2004, 01:05 PM
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Re: Preflop Bot
Bots are bad, period, end of discussion.
I don't care if it only does preflop action and only foldsd hands, it is still standardizing the game too much and taking the human thought process out of the equation. You said it yourself that you often have a hard time restraining yourself in hands. A program like this would eliminate that need for restraint and would take away lots of opportunities to take advantage of tilted players. Poker is as much a mental game as it is a game of numbers. The more bots and progams of that nature in place, the more standardized the game becomes and really it just ruins the game. Plus as stated before this will clearly violate the no bot policy of poker rooms. Why even risk it if your program does something that you can do very easily yourself anyhow? And why take the chance of improving so many fishes games? And why take the chance of potentially folding a monster when your program bugs out. The whole mindset that "the program is only doing something I could do anyhow" is exactly the thought process that the creators of winholdem in the like have used. It obviously took someone time to create the program and to develop a game theory that they would employ if playing themselves so the program is really doing no more than what they would do. The fatal flaw is that it is doing more than what they could do themselves as it takes the human psyche out of the equation and thus it has something you can't do yourself. Stay away from bots and don't give programs like this out to anyone. I wouldn't use it yourself either. Totally unnecessary and likely to just get you banned.
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#9
12-29-2004, 01:17 PM
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Re: Preflop Bot
[ QUOTE ]
It violates anti-bot agreements and will make clueless people tighter. If you absolutely HAVE to distribute this crap atleast make the default settings see 60% of all flops. [/ QUOTE ] I agree. While I'd rather you get rid of this program entirely, this should be the final line of defense for anyone who creates a bot and does let it out into the wild; make sure the default settings are horrible, and force the user to change them.
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)*> to get this and all our $$$ dries up.
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