The only nonfiction that ever gave me bad dreams

[natedogg]

The Fall of Berlin 1945 by Antony Beevor

I think everyone should read this book. Especially anyone remotely associated with dealing with our foreign policy and defense. Every member of congress should have to provide proof he/she has read it.

The sobering detailed description of the horrific apocalypse of systematic arson, gang rape, chaos, murder, starvation, and exposure meted out to the German populace by the Red Army taught me something:

Don't ever, ever, do anything to compromise your ability to defend your homeland from a foreign army. Because once the bad guys get it in they will not play nice. And they certainly won't wait for you to recall your thinly stretched forces to home.

The most sobering image in the book for me was the description of German civilians trying to cross the Elbe in a panic while the Red Army shelled and machine-gunned them mercilessly along with the remains of the Wehrmacht that were with them. But they chose to risk (a highly likely) violent death rather than be captured by the Russians.

And another thing this book taught me. For those who see evil in all things USA, for those self-hating americans and smug euros who think USA is an evil force for oppression and suffering no different from any other despotic empire:

Not one German civilian or soldier was trying to go the other way. Not one. No reports of panicked Germans fleeing the brutal depradations of the evil US soldiers.

natedogg

[Rick Nebiolo]

Thanks Natedogg. Just went to Amazon and read more about the book. This will be the next non-fiction book I read.

The "Good War" indeed [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

~ Rick

[Broken Glass Can]

Looks like this guy has 7 books, several on WWII. The one on the Spanish Civil War also looks interesting. Click on the picture to go to his site.

As for nightmares, read up on your ancient history (i.e. Rome vs. Carthage) for some graphic warfare involving civilians.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
The Fall of Berlin 1945 by Antony Beevor

I think everyone should read this book. Especially anyone remotely associated with dealing with our foreign policy and defense. Every member of congress should have to provide proof he/she has read it.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, I think all politicians should have to go to some quick educational program before leading this country. I'm not sure how you would really implement it, but there are too many politicians in office that don't have a clue when it comes to this kind of stuff.

[cardcounter0]

Shouldn't the subtitle of this book be "Paybacks a Bitch"?

Wasn't a lot of this because of the Red Army's knowledge that the Germans weren't exactly nice in their invasion of Russia? The stand at Stalingrad, whole villages executed, etc.

Maybe this should also be required reading for some flag waving goon when they start spouting off with their "nuke all the ragheads" crap.

[whiskeytown]

with all due respect to any germans on the board....

they deserved it.

every Nazi who tortured and killed civilians on their way to Moscow deserved it

and every civilian who acted like they didn't know where the Jews/Gypsys/underdesirables were being shipped to, they share in some of that guilt from then.

payback is an incredible bitch.

RB

[wacki]

Or how about "The wrath of Stalin". He slaughtered millions of his own people because he couldn't believe the Germans could of invaded unless those Russians were helping them.

[mackthefork]

Yeah but, no one is ever going to attack the US even if its defended with marshmallows.

Regards Mack

[nicky g]

An eye for an eye and the whole world is blind; two wrongs etc...

Soldiers who committed/politicians who ordered war crimes should have been tried for them. Civilians are generally off limits no matter what; even if they knew what was going on they faced an extremely repressive and powerful state to contend with. I agree that the behaviour of the Nazis in Russia explains what the Russians did in Berlin to a great extent, but you still can't condone it. You can't hold individual women and children responsible for the crimes of a state or soldiers. Indiscriminate murder is not the way to get people to atone for their sins.

[wacki]

Good post Nicky G.

I couldn't agree with you more.