Aces on flush board out of position - I hate it

[CanKid]

Tight short handed (7 at the time of this hand) 10/20 at Brantford Charity, Villian (button) is new to me, but he seems like the typical young confident Asian, plays tight and pretty average-aggressive post flop.

Cankid UTG + 1 with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

UTG (passive weak loose) limps, I raise, folded to button who calls, BB calls UTG calls.

Flop K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Check to me, I bet, Villain raises, BB folds, UTG folds, I make it 3 bets, Villain calls.

Turn: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I check, he bets, I call

River: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I check and call.

[flawless_victory]

sreiously weak turn check. no good. reading this post like put me in a bad mood. i dont know... i hope you were CRing and got a tell of strength or something. i dont care at all that he had a flush. irrelevant. i mean you have the effing A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. come on.

[CanKid]

[ QUOTE ]
reading this post like put me in a bad mood.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reading your post puts me in a bad mood, take 10 seconds to format it, and try to be a bit more constructive. These hip-jive 2 sentence useless hostile posts aren't cute anymore.

Nevertheless, here's my thinking during the hand:

If he has a K/pair, he bets when checked to on the turn, and calls when bet at.

If he has KQ (a range of hand that immediately pops into mind from his preflop CC) he likely raises when bet at, and bet when checked to.

If he has a flush he bets when checked to, and raises when bet at.

I don't mind trying to peel a diamond for the nuts if he checks behind either on the turn. I don't think he has a wierd random hand like AT or 77 that giving a free card is a huge risk to, especially when I have the diamond.


Keep in mind I DIDN'T like my line, that's why I'm here... I'm just trying to illustrate my thought proccess throughout.

[lil']

With the pre-flop cold call, I'm thinking he has a pair more often than a flush draw on the flop. A little too cautious on your part, especially considering that if by some chance you weren't ahead on the turn (although I think you were), you have a redraw to the nut flush.

Something has happened to you to make you play in a very tentative fashion.

[Fianchetto]

I think you should bet the turn.

3-betting the flop and checking the turn doesn't feel right to me, your hand just got stronger with a draw to the nuts.

It looks like the diamond on the turn slowed you down, but I don't think a good player would play a flush draw that way, he is knocking out two of his customers with his flop raise. Wouldn't he want to flat call the flop with a diamond draw keeping the BB and UTG in the pot?

In the likely event your hand is still best you just offered a free card to him, not good in a decent sized pot.

Obviously you have to call if you get popped on the turn, but you have a bunch of outs even if you are behind.

[mplspoker]

Bet turn and call raise down. On River it is extremely unlikely that you are behind, given you have the ace of diamonds (unlikely he is calling a raise with a suited hand that doesn't have an ace of a king and now you have aces up when the board paired on the river..... How are you behind, i'm not sure..... If he had KK or QQ he would have three bet you preflop.... If nothing else bet or check raise river....

[cpk]

You checked to him because you were convinced he had the flush draw, but I never do this when I have a redraw to the nuts. In tighter games I must get every red cent from my Aces, and I look for every excuse to bet even if a scare card comes. Having the A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is way more than what I need to keep betting.

If I don't get raised on the turn, I am betting again when the 5 pairs, because I just counterfeited the hell out of the very probable KQ, and I'll be paid off with lots of other stuff as well. I'm paying off if raised, because the pot is large at this point and even rank amateurs know how to represent a 5 when they miss their one-card flush draw.

If raised on the turn, obviously I will call. If the board pairs I will call again (see above), plus this pot is just too big to get bluffed out of.

[vulture]

Hi,

If I would have checked the turn, I would definately check raise the turn. Even if you are afraid of let's say.. two pair (I don't know why, but...) and you check call the turn, a check-raise on the river would be the best play IMO, because when he had two pair, it now is probably outdrawn by the second 5 on the board and your rockets.
Why did you check the turn with the intention of calling?

Vulture

[worm33]

I love the check on the turn, I really really do, but how you dont checkraise when he bets is beyond me. A lot of "tight players" still think kj aq or even k10 for that matter is a great hand when somebody raises utg.

[cpk]

A checkraise seems overly fancy, but if you can regularly pull off such a thing with just pocket Aces, you're a much better player than I am (not hard).

I agree with you about the junk kings, AQ, etc.

(Though I still worry that my 3-bet of AQ in these cases is out of line--I don't think it is in most of the games I play in, but I think I could stand to be more careful. It could be a leak.)