Big Flopped Flush-Interesting (I think)

[fsuplayer]

2.5/5 500 game 6 max

nut peddler UTG limps, so does everyone else.
i tap w/ Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB leads for $20, I make it $80.

to my suprise, nut peddler makes it $160
[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

SB folds.

im lost here. whats my plan from there on?

i have like $1200 to start the hand and nut peddler has like 900 to start.

in general he is pretty ABC, he will lay down hands when pressure is put on him, but is pretty meh overall.

[muzungu]

The nice thing about nut-peddlers is that they are pretty predictable, preflop play included. So he doesn't have KK, and perhaps not JJ (he'd raise them preflop). And I doubt he will play T9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or smaller utg. So that leaves Ax[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] x, and 55 as the likely candidates.

Offhand, I like quickly calling the flop and either quickly checking or making a blocking bet on the turn. A tight player might make a flop semibluff with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] x, but he'll probably check behind on the turn for his free card. He might check JJ/55 behind as well, not wanting to get c/red if you have a flush.

So I make it look like i have a decent made hand, either by giving him the quick "I'm going to call you down" flop call/turn check or by leading the turn on a non-diamond/non-pair card. If he keeps firing, I probably (hopefully?) let it go. But that's a tough laydown to make in the moment.

Cheers,

-muz

[lapoker17]

So, nut peddler either limped w 55, JJ, KK, he limped w AX[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], or he tried to limp reraise w A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Ax.

Not sure what the tone of your post is, as I can't tell if you think you're ahead and want to extract $ or you're actually worried about being behind. I'm not one of those psycho math posters, so I won't do the 98473738 posible combinations of hands he holds stuff. One point I am unsure of - I don't know if being a nut peddler means he's tight preflop or not. Would he limp UTG w A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] - Only you know that. If he's tight preflop as well, then you almost have to be ahead here as he would only limp w AT or maybe A9 - Again your read.

I think he either flopped a set - Probably 555, or he tried to limp reraise w AA and no one complied. So for me this is more of an extracting $ spot.

I would be really happy getting all of my money in here, but naturally don't want to scare him off. Still I think you have to reraise the flop. If he comes over the top, I call. The range of hands that beats you here is small and if the board pairs on the turn you may be finished.

Just wait for someone to tell me I'm wrong though...

[fsuplayer]

ill try and clear up a couple of things, if i can:

Not sure what the tone of your post is, as I can't tell if you think you're ahead and want to extract $ or you're actually worried about being behind

good, i wanted to portray my thinking at the time, which was, how do i get the most $$ from the hands he could have that i beat, yet not play it so that he lays down the hands i want in there.

I wasnt sure either.


I'm not one of those psycho math posters, so I won't do the 98473738 posible combinations of hands he holds stuff.

me neither.

One point I am unsure of - I don't know if being a nut peddler means he's tight preflop or not.

suited aces and any PP are very playable. its a 6 max game, (i hope i mentioned that, but not sure if i did) so people play lots more hands.

[riverboatking]

ok so we know he is a nut peddler, but what is your table image. i think that is key here. what kinds of hands will he put you on in this spot when you make the raise.

i have a hard time giving him the nut flush here, because since you have shown some strength and he is in position i am inclined to think he would wait for the turn, let you invest some more $$$ and then pop it up.

of course if he is a very tricky nut peddler he may be hoping you will fall for that exact line of thinking.

however i think you are ahead here more often then not, after all he may very well have something like 78 diamonds, and think it is good.

once again it would be very helpful if you would provide some insight as to how this opponent views you. have you been playing very fast and loose, or pretty tight (i would imagine you have been playing pretty fast as this is a shorthanded game).

so if we assume you are ahead here then lets think about how to get all the money in.

if he has a set or just the A of diamonds then you have to reraise the flop, as he is much more likely to gamble with two cards to come.

if you wait for the turn and its either a diamond or a pair you are in a bad situation.

due to the fact that you are out of position i think you should reraise.
unless of course you think he will continue to semi-bluff with either the set or naked A of diamond.
from the way you describe him however i think he will slow down once you call his raise.

also, remember that he probably realizes that you view him as a nut peddler, so he may be willing to take a stand here with either a baby flush, or a set, thinking you are trying to push him around.

very interesting hand (as usual from you), look foward to hearing the results.

[turnipmonster]

I agree with lapoker that he may have a set here, and also he may not be able to lay it down.

one option is reraising allin. it really depends on what he thinks of you, but plenty of players will think to themselves that you would never play a flopped flush like that and talk themselves into calling.

you could stop and go this as well, we talked about that [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. that only works if he'll call you with an lone diamond and a set a good amount of the time.

interested to hear others opinions, hope it worked out.

--turnipmonster

[josie_wales]

Hey

Based upon him being NP, I am thinking that he either (a) flopped a smaller flush (b) flopped a set (c) flopped nut flush.

I think that the chances are listed in decreasing order of possibility.

(a) flopped flush (smaller than yours)
This is the most likely holding. He flopped a real good hand, figures it is VERY unlikely that you flopped a flush as well, and decides to raise to either win a fair pot right there OR get you to chase the 4th diamond.

(b) Flopped a set (any)
This is the 2nd most likely option. He could put you on a flush draw with a lone high [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and raise to get you out with his set. But wouldnt you think he'd raise more to get you out?

Also, with him being a nut peddler, he could be scared and just look for a fill-up on his set cheaply, thus NOT 3-betting.

This is why I think this possibility is lesser that the first


(c) Flopped Nut Flush
This is, while possible, the least likely of the 3.

Reason being: If he is a nut peddler, he knows the nuts dont come around often. He will want to make the most off the hand that he can. That would NOT entail 3-betting.

A smooth call of your raise and popping you on the turn would be more likely.

Again, obviously all 3 are possibilities (I have virtually eliminated the flush draw for him (although he could have A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Kx, I guess)

That all being said, I like your call of his raise to try to get more into the pot. You are ahead of the top two possibilities (my top two that is [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]) so try to make a few bucks off him.

jw

[fsuplayer]

but what is your table image. i think that is key here. what kinds of hands will he put you on in this spot when you make the raise

I think he views me as a pretty solid LAG.
It took me a couple of sittings with him to realize he was a nut peddler, and I gave him some small-med. sized action with some so-so hands.


The thing that really confused me about the hand was the smallish size reraise by him. the only time i had ever seen that from him (twice too) was preflop, when he had aces.

that almost minraise really froze me up. I put him on exactly the same three hands that josie mentioned.

that being said, i didnt want him to leave with a set or lower flush, but i didnt want to let him draw cheaply either, so a raise, if I was to make one would have been to about $350. at the time I thought that he would fold quite a few hands I didnt want him to if i put in the 4th (and big) raise.

ok, all that being said:

I flat called the raise, and went for the turn CR thinking that he would put me on a set or lone high diamond and bet a good amount, at which point i could set him in and he would be forced to call his last few hundred with a set, lone diamond or lower flush.

well, that backfired as I whiffed completely on the (blank) turn CR [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img], and bet another blank river (about $180 i think) and he folded after 2-3 sec.

so...i think he must have had a set of 5's or the ace of diamonds.

I have a tendency to get greedy sometimes and go for villian's entire stack, instead of just reraising big and see if they call. it works sometimes, but failed miserably this time.

you could stop and go this as well, we talked about that . that only works if he'll call you with an lone diamond and a set a good amount of the time.

I think this, or a reraise is on the flop is needed on this hand. just not sure which in this case. i think i would lean towards reraising all in, and congradulate him if he has the nuts already.

thanks for all the great responses guys. I know i still have a [censored] ton to learn when I am in a hand sometimes and wondering to myself "what the hell is the play here?".

those are the ones i post, good, bad, or ugly.

thanks again,

fsuplayer

[riverboatking]

[ QUOTE ]
thanks for all the great responses guys. I know i still have a [censored] ton to learn when I am in a hand sometimes and wondering to myself "what the hell is the play here?".

[/ QUOTE ]

its real easy to sit in front of your computer, and come up with a great line in a tricky situation.
however it is a completely different problem when you are sitting at the table with real money on the line, trying to quickly calculate multiple factors to determine the best course of action.

and i'm with you bud, often times i make a play only to think to myself later ten ways i could have played it more profitably.

in general though i think discussing hands/strategy on this fourm helps me to incorporate these ideas into my subconcious so that they become second nature, and the next time i face a similar decision i am better prepared.

the one thing i have noticed since i joined these fourms and began really analyzing my play is that now my mistakes are more in the spectrum of not winning enough money when i'm ahead, rather then losing too much money when i'm behind.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
its real easy to sit in front of your computer, and come up with a great line in a tricky situation.
however it is a completely different problem when you are sitting at the table with real money on the line, trying to quickly calculate multiple factors to determine the best course of action.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hit the nail on the head. I need to spend more time thinking over my options live... I rush headlong into far too many situations.