Could I have played KQ better?

trentcroad · #1 12-10-2004, 04:17 AM

Should I have called the flop? Should I have raised the RIver?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (7 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (10 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB

Ajax410 · #2 12-10-2004, 04:28 AM

I am indifferent towards a flop raise/call - the backdoor flush + overcards makes a raise okay (especially if you'll get a free look at the river), but a call is sometimes good too, depending on the aggression of the opponent.

I raise the river.

Alex

Shillx · #3 12-10-2004, 04:32 AM

Raise the river. If he had JT, you would have heard from him on the turn. There is no doubt that you have the best hand here.

Brad

Tim&Joe · #4 12-10-2004, 04:48 AM

Tim: What are your thoughts on your flop call?

Joe: Yeah I had questions as well Tim. With preflop being three bet it's questionable if you can count your overcards as outs.

Tim: I would raise the river, between his actions pre and post flop is it unlikely that you are beat. If he reraises just call.

Ajax410 · #5 12-10-2004, 09:13 AM

Is this going to be something I have to read everyday? I sure hope not [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-Alex

Rah · #6 12-10-2004, 09:46 AM

Why are you not raising the river??

John Paul · #7 12-10-2004, 11:53 AM

SB 3-bet on the flop, which means a big pair or AK/AQ for everyeone but the most obvious maniacs. The flop check/call from SB tells me that it is 2 high cards rather than AA-JJ. A raise on the flop seems kind of neutral to me. Given that SB 3-bet preflop I doubt he'll fold until the turn (although sometimes it happens), and you might be behind to a BB with Ax that hit the flop. You are clearly ahead on the turn - no one is acting like they have AQ, KK or AA. I think small blind had AK which explains the river bet - you should raise.

Octopus · #8 12-10-2004, 01:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Should I have called the flop? Should I have raised the RIver?

[/ QUOTE ]

WARNING: Too much analysis for not enough pay-off. Read at your own risk.

SB has AK, raise the river.

The flop is interesting, though. You have overcards and a backdoor flush draw (and, for completeness, a double gutshot backdoor straight draw). You are almost certainly behind to the SB and may be behind to the BB as well, so we will assume that you are drawing.

So, question 1: should you fold? The backdoor flush is probably good, so we will give it 1.5 outs. The overcards are seriously tainted. Without a read, let's assume that SB will 3-bet with the normal range of hands (AA-JJ, AK, and perhaps AQs). Against all but JJ, some or all of your outs are bad. (BB could have JT which taints your outs further.) I'd give you 2 outs total for the overcards. The straight draw is tainted by the flush possibility, but it would be to the nuts and we have a flush card, so let's give it .5 outs. I'd say we have 4 outs equivalent. If we knew it would not be raised behind us, we should call. SB checked a draw heavy flop into only 2 opponents, so I'm guessing he doesn't have a big pair. Again, without a read, I think a check-raise here is not too likely. Folding isn't bad (we don't have that much of an overlay and lots of things can go wrong), but unless I know SB to love the check-raise, I think I don't want to give up yet. In short, I don't want to fold.

Next, question 2: Should you raise? If you might have the best hand, you should raise here, but we decided that you almost certainly don't. Can you clean up your overcard outs? If SB has AK or AQ and he has no spades, then he might fold here for 2 bets, but probably not, espeially closing the action. (He would be getting 7-1.) I don't think he is likely enough to fold to want to invest a bet on that basis. This is not a good place to try for a free card. Half our outs are based on backdoor draws. The outs we counted on the backdoor draws were based on walking away on the turn if they don't materialize. Trying for a free card here negates that. Thus, I do not think raising is appropriate.

Call the flop.

meep_42 · #9 12-10-2004, 01:34 PM

Raise the flop. A red AK might fold for two cold here and you have back door draws galore, making a free card play good.

Turn is good.
Raise the river, call a 3-bet.

-d

Hack · #10 12-10-2004, 01:40 PM

What's a double gutshot backdoor straight draw?

What is a backdoor straight draw even? Is it like if you have 10J and the flop is 267?