How aggressive to get with JJ vs two callers? ...

GlemZurg · #1 12-09-2004, 05:43 PM

Can you all tell me how you would have played this hand?

SB played loose preflop and I'd sometime see him bet mediocre hands strongly.

BB has just sat down and I didn't know him.

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks,
Justin

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: GlemZurg is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
5 folds, GlemZurg raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, GlemZurg bets, ...

I figured a Q would have bet so I bet (figuring I had the best hand).

... SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, GlemZurg raises, ...

I'm not sure about my raise. At the time I was thinking the small bet on the flop couldn't discourage anyone but a reraise on the turn may convince any draws to back off.

Now I don't think that is really good thinking since the calling odds to draws were even better (7.5:1) (for the next card) then they were on the flop (6:1).

Not only that but they both put money in on the turn so they would probably call a reraise. Doh!

... SB folds, ...

And I folded SB who might of made a pair of 9s (and probably would have paid another bet on the river). Although maybe he made a gutshot draw and wouldn't have called a river bet. Or maybe he had a Q all along and just didn't want to bet on the flop into the pfr.

So, anyway, even though SB ended up folding I'm thinking I should have called the turn since raising gave the SB and BB better odds then their flop call.

... BB calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, GlemZurg checks.

Since a flush is out (and perhaps a Q called the whole way) I just check.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Fat Nicky · #2 12-09-2004, 05:48 PM

Nice turn raise. I don't think I myself would have been able to do it. I usually just call down when someone pulls a stop n go.

Bet the river, IMO.

butters · #3 12-09-2004, 05:53 PM

The SB's lead bet on the turn looks suspicious, so I'd raise here also, especially with BB along for the ride with what looks like a draw. Might as well charge him the maximum while you can.

With no read on the BB, checking the river through is the safe play here.

bernie · #4 12-09-2004, 05:56 PM

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Or maybe he had a Q all along and just didn't want to bet on the flop into the pfr

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You're in a fantasy world if you think he folded a Q.

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So, anyway, even though SB ended up folding I'm thinking I should have called the turn since raising gave the SB and BB better odds then their flop call.

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No you shouldn't have just called. Lots of draws out there on the turn that you can't charge if they miss on the river. You most likely still have the best hand. They don't have better odds than their flop call. Study 'effective' odds a little more. Per TOP.

Also, let's say the sb had A2 or something, even a mid pair, getting him out if he even had a chance at drawing out is good. The pots big enough to start trying to win it.

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Since a flush is out (and perhaps a Q called the whole way) I just check.

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If a Q called this all the way, he'd call it in other spots as well, missing tons of bets. I wouldn't mind this type of guy in my game. He'll pay you back later with interest.

b

MagicRat · #5 12-09-2004, 06:01 PM

I like your turn raise although I don't know if I would have done it; probably would have just called.

I would bet the River however after BB checks; he could have a Q with a weak kicker but since he didn't bet out on the flop I think you can be pretty certain that he doesn't have the flush. Would this be a value bet or stupid play? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Fat Nicky · #6 12-09-2004, 06:02 PM

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Would this be a value bet or stupid play?

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Value Bet.

MagicRat · #7 12-09-2004, 06:04 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
Would this be a value bet or stupid play?

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Value Bet.

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Thanks! [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Freakin · #8 12-09-2004, 06:55 PM

Without any reads on the player though, I don't know if its wise to try value betting. That card completes two possible draws, and without knowing the player, I don't know if he's trying to c/r me or if he's just a calling station. Checking is the safe play, IMO.

Freakin

Grease · #9 12-09-2004, 07:12 PM

Nice turn raise. Bet the river. Don't be afraid of the flush, you'll wish you bet this far more than you wish you checked it through.
Do you call a check raise from an unknown?

GlemZurg · #10 12-10-2004, 02:58 AM

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Or maybe he had a Q all along and just didn't want to bet on the flop into the pfr

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You're in a fantasy world if you think he folded a Q.

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I was noting my thought process before he folded--when it was my turn to act.

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They don't have better odds than their flop call. Study 'effective' odds a little more. Per TOP.

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Thanks for pointing that out. I was just thinking of money in the pot and kicking myself.

Justin