What do I want?

[ElSapo]

I've tried to write this post a few times, and it keeps coming out wrong. But I'd really like people's thoughts on this, so frankly, I may ramble. Any insight you have is appreciated.

So, sometimes I feel like gambling. I mean, I gamble every day on poker, sure. But once in a while I feel like gambling - putting out a decent sized sportsbet, I guess. Basically, flipping a coin, I suppose.

But normally I don't do it. The thing is, losing the bet would feel worse than winning would feel good. Does this make sense?

I mean, say you have a 300+ BB bankroll for playing 5/10 ... ok, so you've got $3,000 online. A separate bankroll that doesn't affect your life at all. You withdraw from it once in a while, ride out the swings, over time it goes up, all is well ... And even if it didn't go up, well, frankly you have a job, they pay you fine, all is well.

Say I want to gamble. I want to put down $500 on the Redskins (or whoever, the 'skins suck) ... I believe it's a smart bet, but mostly I believe it's no worse than 50-50 minus the juice. I want to gamble.

Thing is, I don't need the $500. And if I lose it, if I lose the 50 BB from my BR, I'll be irritated with myself. And if I win it, well ... honestly, I wont care. I mean, so I won the $500, stick 50 BB more in the bankroll, whatever....

Told you this wasn't making sense. What I mean is this -- it seems that gambling for $X and making $X in my job, all these values are screwy. Our hypothetical $500 is worth more to me online than it is to me in real life. Which means, I guess, that losing it hurts more than winning it.

Does this make any sense?

Look, I'm a journalist. I don't make a lot of money. If you handed me $1,000, well, that's a lot of cash to be honest. But it isn't a whole lot, at the same time. I mean, playing cards online for two years, it's weird. In a way, it means success -- money is just score keeping. But it's also taken away the satisfaction of winning cash.

I dunno. Maybe when I get the urge to do this, when I just want to flip the coin, I should do it not from an online poker bankroll but just plop down the $500 with whomever...

The thing is, what I mean, is I don't know what the coin-flip is supposed to accomplish. Instant gratification, maybe.

For the record - the $500 figure is hypothetical. I dunno. And I'm well aware of bankroll management and stuff like that. Sometimes I just have this want for the instant gratification of a win, but would be more irritated with a loss than I would be happy about the win.

I dunno. In some ways, I think it's a good thing. Probably a sign, frankly, that everything is good -- I'm not willing to gamble for amounts of money which would hurt me. Maybe that's what it means.

Bah. I should delete this, but whatever. Comment away, if you want...

[IsaacW]

If you want to take a "bad" gamble every once in a while because it's fun, or it feels good, then do it. Just don't let it get out of hand. By "bad" I mean -EV (like your coinflip - juice example).

For me, the joy of winning a -EV bet doesn't outweigh the pain my mind puts be through for making a -EV bet, so I don't do it very often if I know a bet is -EV. Sure, I play poker too and of course I'm making bad plays sometimes (a lot?), but I don't usually know those are -EV until afterwards [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Basically, have a "fun" bankroll that you can -EV gamble away if you can afford it. Try it out for a while. If you find that the fun of the wins outweighs the inevitability of the losses, then keep it up. Otherwise, chalk it up as an experiment in happiness that didn't produce the desired result.

[ElSapo]

[ QUOTE ]
Otherwise, chalk it up as an experiment in happiness that didn't produce the desired result.


[/ QUOTE ]

Still thinking about your post, but I like this line. "Experiment in happiness" is a good idea.

[Richie Rich]

I know you're talking about, and feel like I'm going through the same "phase" myself. Ever since you started gambling, and winning somewhat consistantly, the value of winning money has gone down. Don't get me wrong, making money doing something you enjoy still feels satisfying. But the "joy" of winning a couple of hundred dollars today isn't what it was, let's say, 2 years ago, is it? Unfortunately, the "sadness" in losing that couple of hundred dollars still hurts a bit, especially if that couple of hundred is closer to $1,000.

Addiction comes in many forms, such as alcohol and drugs. At first, feeling buzzed/drunk or high feels good. It's different. A new experience. But after a while, it isn't what it used to be. Now you need to consume more drinks to get buzzed/drunk. Or take more drugs to get high.

When you first started playing poker a few years back, winning $50 or $100 in 2 hours felt great, didn't it? But now it doesn't have the same rush. Now you'd need to win $400 or $500 for that same level of satisfaction. But losing that amount hurts more than the gratification of winning it. That's when you should recognize that a problem is starting to develop. You (and I) should do something before it becomes any worse.

What am I going to do? Go back to playing and thinking of poker as a business. Because that's what it is. Sure, I have fun when playing poker, but when you get down to it, the reward for my time & efforts is the money that I earn/win.

Good luck getting back on track.

[tolbiny]

I don't know what you want, but i do know one thing- I'm a pussy. If i lost 80$ on a football game it would irratate me, so i only bet 10 bucks at a time.
but the again winning 9.09 on a 10$ bet means nothing since i play 5-10 and 10-20 regularly.
So i try to keep this to a minimum, but every couple of months i put down a bizzare 8 team 10$ parley. With all the teams on TV- (which is easy during football season with Direct ticket) losing the 10$ is easy, nd one day i might win one, and that's gonna be great, because i will be sitting there after the first five games, agonizing over the last three.
Not that its for everyone, but its a nice alternate to poker for me.

[ElSapo]

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Ever since you started gambling, and winning somewhat consistantly, the value of winning money has gone down.

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I gotta find a new drug, huh? This is a pretty summation of my rambling, if by 'value' you mean that thrill.

[sfer]

Sapo, Are you saying you get a rush from gambling?

[J.R.]

"I gotta find a new drug, huh?"

Nl holdem Tournaments. Fear and terror every hand, and vast rewards if you get good and are fortunate, but minimal downside (unless you play to many of them).

Playing mini buyin plo or nl holdem is pretty fun to.

[ElSapo]

[ QUOTE ]
Sapo, Are you saying you get a rush from gambling?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, ironically. That's really not it. It's tough to explain.

Actually, I do exactly what JR said in another reply sometimes - I buy into $20 and $30 multis and play there... it's a gamble b/c it certainly isn't my best game, and the investment is in the right range for me and I'm probably slightly +EV against Party's 1,500 player field...

Anyways, a rush? Well... no. I think someone else nailed it, I just don't get the same satisfaction from winning the same amounts of money I used to. Poker really has become a grind. And in some respects, like I said, this is a positive. But once in a while I go out looking instant gratification of a big win, and poker (limit hold'em, at least) just doesn't do that. That's not the way it's supposed to be anyways.

NL tournies are fun though... I cashed in the low 90s once of one of Party's big ones... So the payout was small, but I actually felt some accomplishment there - albeit not exactly a whopping win...

Sorry to ramble more again. I believe some of my streaks in poker are tied to some of these thoughts and feelings, and that odd need for instant gratification which leads to tilt...

ElSapo

[StratDiamond]

You're just exhibiting natural human behavior. Most humans prefer to avoid losses than to seek gains, even if the expected values are equal.

See here: Loss aversion

If you're a poker player (or an MBA, where I learned this), you learn to measure the EV, and make decisions accordingly. But your feelings are natural.