Open discussion on PlayerView - Input needed

[amirpc]

Alright guys, here's what we have listed to do in the upcoming two weeks:
<ul type="square"> [*]Tournament Support [*]Table Averages [*]Cleaned up Layout Manager [*]Help Files [/list]We have also added Went to Show down % and the average aggression not including preflop.

This is just to give you an idea where we are at, and where we are going.

Now theres one thing we keep hearing over and over again and that is: You guys need to charge for this!

Since from the very start you guys have given us direction with this project, we thought we should discuss this with you before we made any decisions.

Now we are two broke college kids, we did not start this project to make a profit - and we still aren't in it for a profit. We started this project because it looked really interesting and you guys were really supportive. That said, sure, we'd love to make a modest profit for our hard work.

However we are not going to do anything to alienate 2+2ers, nor are we going to try to tick anyone off. We have recieved about 10 donations, and we are very grateful for them. These donations and the response from the boards has been overwhelming. We are very excited to see that we are not the only ones very excited!

We will not sell anything incomplete, we are going to wait until the results of this thread are definitive and the above modifications are done before we look to make a profit. Also if we decide to sell it, we will register a domain and maintain a forum to report bugs and request features.

If/when we were to sell it our idea went something like this:
- There will be a FREE version that is locked at 2 tables maximum at a time. Casual players that just want to use this for when they play from time to time really won't pay a cent this way.

- People who have contributed a lot to the debugging process, and people who have donated get everything for free, obviously! (Also those who feel that they would like their donation back or a portion of it, would be welcome to it)

- We will continue to take feature requests and implement them as fast as we can (and if you've been watching the boards lately you'll see that that is pretty fast). For most pieces of software you wait 3 months for an update, not 3 hours [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

- It would NOT be expensive. Even for a low limits player it should be cheap enough that if used properly it pays for itself very quick.

So all this said, what do you guys think? Should we charge for this piece of software or not?

Moderators: Please note we are not asking for money in this thread, we are asking if we should ask for money [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] If this is a problem, please let me know asap.

And thanks again guys for all your support.
Amir &amp; CT

[La Brujita]

You will happily get an 11th donation from me. As I mentioned previously on another thread I would prefer to do it via Pokerstars if you all have an account.

I see no problem in you all charging for it when you finish the product.

[tribefan9]

I was just wondering if you have talked to the folks over at pokertracker. It seems like you could form a partnership. I don't know how they are feeling about your product, might be somewhere between thrilled and angry. I would hate for this to turn into a mess of accusations over stolen ideas/code when it could be a wonderful relationship. Imagine selling it through their distribution channels (and client lists) as a fully integrated add on to poker tracker. Seems like all of you could make money and end up with a better product. No more worries about tuition or beer money!

[Blarg]

My answers don't quite fit your poll.

I'm a big sissy about alpha and beta software. I need my computer to be working, all the time.

Therefore I'm reluctant to not just pay for, but even try your software until it's gone through a good many interations and had many chances to get the bugs booted out of it.

If you get something nice and stable for a good period of time, whether it's in beta or not, then I would consider using it, and, if I liked it, would be more than happy to pay for it. It would have to be non-sluggish and not hog resources or have memory leaks.

That's a lot of ifs, but that's free choice for ya. The integrity of my computer is worth more than a nice handy extra tool is.

I would also like the ability for the payment to be done through Paypal. I wouldn't feel comfy sending my credit card info to "just some guy," however well intentioned. I would need a way to limit exposure. Maybe even that Netstore or whatever, with the coupons you can get from Neteller. People have had their accounts warned and banned for person to person transfers on Party and skins, so I don't think that's a good way at all to go about it. There are some horror stories.

[amirpc]

Who mentioned party transfers? hehe

We would probably handle payment through paypal, as you mentioned, simply because its easy for us to do.

We're obviously working full speed ahead on fixing bugs. The only problem at the moment seems to be a problem people using database over the network are getting.

We do update as fast as we can and bugs tend to get squashed quick...

Plus as I noted, we wouldn't release an incomplete product - that goes for bugginess as well. It wouldn't be released until we're satisfied with its stability.

Also not only is the code written in such a way that it can't really leak memory, it uses all .net data structures for dynamic stuff and if you know anything about .net you know it has a very nice garbage collection system. It won't leak memory [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Hogging resources depends almost entirely on how big the PT database is, and how many files are being allowed to pile up in the party &amp; skin directories. For instance on my computer I can run 12 tables for hours on end, entirely as an observer - which is muuuch more intense on the system, without a single lag issue(or crash, I haven't had a crash in a long time, since like, beta .2S).

However, I have an exceptional computer and everything is configured well. I can't guarantee that for everyone obviously all I can do is make the program use as little as possible.

Also: It's in beta NOW, it won't be in beta when we release it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I'm in constant conversation with people using it and noone seems to be having problems, except for the problem I already noted with networked databases. There are a lot of people using it, there were hundreds of downloads from the website.

[CT11]

[ QUOTE ]


Also not only is the code written in such a way that it can't really leak memory, it uses all .net data structures for dynamic stuff and if you know anything about .net you know it has a very nice garbage collection system. It won't leak memory [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to add that if you are using NT,2k, or XP as soon as you close a program which has leaked memory it is immediately freed. Also we don't anything to your system that would run in the background or alter any system files with the exception of some registry keys which are confined to a single location far from OS specific keys.

~CT

[Lost Wages]

If PokerTracker comes out with its own version then yours is essentially dead. If you want to turn a profit then I think that you should approach Pat about either buying your idea or allowing you to provide it as an intergrated add-on.

Lost Wages

[Mr. Graff]

I'd recommend you view this from a business point of view a lot more (and from an egotistical point of view I prefer you charge for it too to limit the number of fish who get their hands on it [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]). You guys are putting in a lot of time, skill and effort for the benefit of other people. I think most people will buy but not donate (me included). And if you must have a free version have more limitations on it. There isn't enough incentive to buy it for most people if the only limitation you have is to allow "only" two tables. I never play more than that...! And I think most people don't (except maybe 2+2'ers). Also, how about in the free version you can only see VPIP and number of hands? Another limitation could be to not have it work for observed tables (a big incentive to buy IMO).

Btw. a feature I REALLY miss: No fold percentage, I use this a lot.

[_And1_]

Lost Wages, there already is a program that is quite similar you download it at the Pokertracker forums. I'm not saying that this or that is better than the other but even thou GameTimeWindow+ would be better they could still charge for playerview (if they would like to?). why? Couse ppl are lazy and dont care to find out if there are options they'll gladly pay 20 bucks (thinking they made a bargain)...

[Lost Wages]

Everyone already has PokerTracker and it is required to use Playerview anyway, so if PokerTracker were to have an integrated heads-up display, there would be no reason to buy Playerview.

Lost Wages