Another TT hand

[bicyclekick]

Paradise 40/80

loose aggressive guy in mp opens (and by loose aggressive...think typical party 15/30 player), folded to 38vp 19pfr super lag in the sb who calls, I threebet T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the bb, mp caps, we both call.

Flop 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
check, check, bet, fold, I call.
turn K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
I check/call
river A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
I check and call.

Anyone fire on the river? Anyone bet the flop hoping he'll raise? Check raise? Anyone check/raise the turn hoping he'll fold something like JJ or QQ or even AQs? Or even bet out? played perfectly?

[PackerFan22]

+ev

[lostinthought]

why not check raise the flop?


I like check-raising the flop,
and betting out on the turn with this turn card..

[bicyclekick]

I'm playing the hand over in my head and can't believe I didn't bet the river. Check/raising is not correct...but betting probably is.

[James282]

Indeed, you must bet. He's going to need jacks or queens with the spade and unless he's a pretty good player he's not going to find a lot of value bets even with sets(though he'd surely call).
-James

[RED_RAIN]

I think all is fine except the turn I might check/raise the turn to get rid of Js or Qs without a spade.

I would bet and fold to a raise on the river.

[Michael Davis]

What was your plan for the turn if a blank hit?

-Michael

[bicyclekick]

What do you think? I think hands like this are part of the poker game I don't have figured out yet.

Part of me likes bet and fold to a raise. Part of me likes check and fold. Part of me likes checking and calling and betting a non A or K river. Another part just likes going into check/call mode the rest of the hand. The thought of checkraising pops into my head as it may be better than calling down because he may fold his AK and not get to see the river card.

Can you tell I'm confused?

Enlighten me.

I'll get there eventually. Hands like this come up all the time and I wanna get it right.

[Paluka]

I think checkraising the flop would have been a good play, although in a hand like this I don't think it is signficantly higher ev.
As you already figured out, you should have bet the river.

[Michael Davis]

Being out of positions sucks always.

I probably would have checkraised the flop and if threebet planned on calling down, but I think your line is okay.

I think you should bet a blank turn but should not fold to a raise because I suspect some of your 40-80 opponents will play AK this hard especially after you checked the flop. (Of course, this might be a reason you should just call down the whole way.) When the spade king comes it both gives you outs to win but makes it a whole lot more likely you are losing so I like checkcall no matter how you've played the flop. I think checkraising with the intention of getting JJ or QQ to fold is relatively futile.

I do like betting out the turn, but I don't like folding to a raise. I just don't feel comfortable making this fold against 40-80 players who aren't predictable.

-Michael