AJs in EP vs. an unknown BB 3-bettor

bisonbison · #1 11-06-2004, 08:27 PM

CO is loose-passive.
This is the BB's first hand at the table and I've never seen him before.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 4 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: (9.33 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, CO calls.

Turn: (6.16 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, CO calls.

River: (9.16 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 12.16 BB

spamuell · #2 11-06-2004, 08:31 PM

I would have done the same.

SCfuji · #3 11-06-2004, 08:35 PM

i think vs an unknown the place to raise would have been the flop. sure you only have a gutter straight and bdoor flush draw, but i doubt your raise is going to push out the LAP CO and it maybe have helped you play your hand more aggressively on the turn and river. or you can take option B and play the hand down your line, which is good.

bisonbison · #4 11-06-2004, 08:42 PM

i think vs an unknown the place to raise would have been the flop

Against an unknown, what BB 3-betting hands am I ahead of here?

and it maybe have helped you play your hand more aggressively on the turn and river.

Why would I want to play the turn and/or river more aggressively? Aggression in and of itself is not a moral good.

chesspain · #5 11-06-2004, 08:43 PM

I'ld probably play it the same way, although I think that the odds of your being good on the river (i.e. facing 88/99/KQ) are less than 11:1...however, I did face a BB today who three-bet with 88 against my UTG QQ and a coldcaller; he hit his set of snowmen on the river...good times, indeed, and all part of a -40BB drop over just 250 hands today.

MisterKing · #6 11-06-2004, 08:48 PM

The turn and river appear to help you, but against the BB 3-bettor AND the CO, I doubt they do anything other than lose you money. The turn Ace easily makes someone a bigger two pair than you end with, and the river J turns TT into a surefire winner.

By the time the river rolls around and CO is still there, I think you're in serious trouble with your two pair. Did your hand end up being 3rd best?

Brunger · #7 11-06-2004, 09:05 PM

Folding is probably smart but I can't see myself doing anything but call call call, lose.

StellarWind · #8 11-06-2004, 10:32 PM

The rough draft of this post endorsed your play.

On further reflection I think you should fold the turn. Your gutshot has been seriously damaged by the ace, your jack outs are toxic (JJ/TT/AT), and even another ace is bad because it puts your kicker out of play without accomplishing much.

If you miss the gutshot your hand will be virtually worthless. It may be correct to call the river but the EV of doing so is very small.

You are getting 7-1 not closing the action to draw to a 1-card gutshot in the playing zone. Give up and hope CO demands a showdown.

SCfuji · #9 11-06-2004, 10:45 PM

i dont know what the popular opinion is on 2+2, but the villain posted in the big blind... dont most of us post after the button passes? im not saying that this labels the villain as a beginner, but he sure is anxious to play.

i stand corrected on the flop raise and the aggression on the later streets. i just felt that you could put folding pressure on hands like 1010 or JJ if it didnt improve.

fuji

StellarWind · #10 11-06-2004, 10:57 PM

I lose money every hand I sit out. The tiny theoretical difference between starting in CO vs. BB is not really worth the trouble.

Besides, I enjoy playing. I hope you do too.

I post in BB or cutoff, whichever comes first or is most convenient. I'll post at MP3 if conditions are favorable for doing so.