Starting hands?

[Jimbolito]

Iv´e just played NL for about 100 hours. Before I only played limit, up to 3/6$ but was gettin tired of being outdrawn all the time. Then I decided to try NL. I started with NL50 cuz I felt I didn´t respect the blinds at lower stakes. After about 50 hours with good results I moved up to NL100 where I am now. The thing is I havent read much about NL. There isnt as much info as there is on Limit. And I´m not sure about my starting hands Preflop.

At limit I played Tight, under 20% seen flops. But now when I lay NL I noticed I play a little loser. I would guess just above 20%. And I´m not sure this is optimally play.

I wonder if there´s any chart on the net for NL? Or if some of you better players made one yourself? Not theres any chart that always is correct, but as a gudeline.

I play medium ans small pairs alot more cuz of the implied odds. Also suited connectors. But play big unsuited less, Like K-To and Q-To. Also I often fold A-Qo agaisnt a significant preflop Raise, wich I often didnt in Limit.

So again, any charts out there so I can get a better Idea about startinghands in NL?

(I play 0.5-1 NL at Prima for now)


//Jc.

[Unarmed]

http://www.kleptic.com/poker/nlhands.html

[scrub]

You'll be more successful posting this in the small stakes forum.

Better still would be a search of the archives.

scrub

[Jimbolito]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.kleptic.com/poker/nlhands.html

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably the worst advice for starthands I ever seen. Are U serious about this? I appreciate for your help, but this...?!

Like limping with A-Ks? Or Playing A-Qs is only for advanced players, even only for a single blind??

[W00lygimp]

I am a winning NL shorthand player, but the kleptic link was horrible advice. I can't see folding AJ...

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
Optional Hands
Group 6 : Ax's
... only play in very aggressive games.


[/ QUOTE ]

ah yes, those very aggressive games where you won't get pushed out pre-flop and where you'll get to draw to your flush cheaply.

[Unarmed]

The kleptic hand rankings are tight as hell but very useful for a person starting out in NL, especially at the short stacks he or she will likely be playing with. I don't limp AK personally, but not playing a big pot with it isn't a horrible idea. I drop AJ in EP every time I see it.

Basically, I think the advice for groups 1 through 5 is sound. His thoughts on Ax and SC are a little weird.

You guys really think these are that horrid? I got the link here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ev=#Post849414

[BradL]

[ QUOTE ]
Probably the worst advice for starthands I ever seen. Are U serious about this? I appreciate for your help, but this...?!

[/ QUOTE ]

Even .50/1.00 nl is too high for you, probably quit playing all together, paigow may be more your speed. BTW this is the mid/high stakes forum.

I would almost never make a cynical post such as this but FFS.

Edit: This is assuming the hand rankings in question are for a full ring game for a begginer playing nl poker. And yes the advice on groups 6 and 7 are quite poor.

-Brad

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
ah yes, those very aggressive games where you won't get pushed out pre-flop and where you'll get to draw to your flush cheaply.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, that's too funny. Of course you'll get paid off everytime you hit your 118:1 shot and flop the flush.

Justin A

[sillyarms]

I had the same concerns with the hand rankings so I went to the irc channel on listed on his site and asked him himself. This is the explanation he gave me. Judge for yourselves.

[ QUOTE ]
<alreadyin> anobody there that can awnser a few questions for me about www.kleptic.com/poker/nlhands.html?
<kipin> whats up?
<alreadyin> groups 6 & 7 say "only play in very aggressive games."
<alreadyin> wouldn't you want the opposite of that for your drawing hands?
<kipin> well you want proper odds to draw to the hands that make those hands good
<kipin> i.e. straights, and low flushes
<alreadyin> are we talking about implied odds here or pot odds?
<kipin> both
<kipin> if the opponnent is aggressive
<kipin> he will pay you off
<alreadyin> I can't see getting good pot odds in an agressive game. usually it's 2:1 after they bet the pot
<kipin> wait around for kleptic and see what he has to say
<alreadyin> I do like the rankings though
<alreadyin> best I've seen for nl yet
* disrspctd has joined #poker
* disrspctd has left #poker
<RyanGHall> I've won a bit back :/
<RyanGHall> Down $120 now heh
<RyanGHall> The rankings work very well, for the most part.
<RyanGHall> There's a few things that have changed, though.
<alreadyin> like what?
* Looking up RyanGHall user info...
<xforces> kleptic
<kleptic> hi
<kleptic> who is alreadyin
<alreadyin> me
<alreadyin> can you explain for me?
<kleptic> basically in a tight game
<kleptic> you dont get paid off even if you hit the hand
<kleptic> so the hands arent profitable
<kleptic> and only play against big stacks
<kleptic> is really the more important part
<alreadyin> so you mean only play these hands in lose games?
<alreadyin> loose
<kleptic> well its hard to label a game
<kleptic> just loose
<kleptic> because a game can be super loose preflopa
<kleptic> and have almost no action post flop
<kleptic> thats true in alot of stars games
<kleptic> like .50/1NL
<alreadyin> It just seems like to me that if a game is agressive there are going to be alot of pot sized bets. And therefore lower pot odds to draw with
<kleptic> well you want to flop hard
<kleptic> like 2 pair or xxY type flops
<kleptic> straight flush draws
<kleptic> if you flop only a 4 flush
<kleptic> you cant always continue with it
<kleptic> your goal with those hands is not to flop a 4 flush
<alreadyin> that makes sense
<kleptic> anybody you know your going in as a dog and counting on implied odds to make the hand profitable you should make sure your hand is suited though
<kleptic> just as a bonus
<kleptic> if you flop 2 pair with 78 suited and one of your suit is on board
<kleptic> it helps
<kleptic> even if it seems small
<kleptic> any redraw at all is always good
<kleptic> and in most no limit games flop betting isnt that large
<kleptic> you can usually see a turn card with alot of hands
<alreadyin> so I probally need lots of callers to limp with a group 6 or 7 hand?
<kleptic> you really should look for reasons to fold them
<kleptic> not reasons to play them
<kleptic> playing more hands is a bad thing
<kleptic> your instincts when your 8 tabling and just clicking away should be to fold those hands unless conditions are met to play them
<kleptic> your first instinct shouldnt be this is a playable hand

[/ QUOTE ]

silly