Raise too protect, or keep customers?

[JeffO]

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) Don't recall any particular reads.

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $25.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls, CO (poster) calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

With the poster and the blinds behind me I felt justified in playing my KQs against a raise, knowing it would probably be contested 5 or 6 ways.

Flop: (14.66 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls.

Here's where I'm not sure about my play. As you can see I raised and drove out 3 of the remaining 5 players and possibly cleaned up a couple of outs. Anyone just call here as to not drive out customers?

Turn: (10.33 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.

River: (10.33 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn and river play themselves. What I'm really interested in here is my raise on the flop. Comments on cold calling preflop are also welcome.

Final Pot: 16.33 BB

[stoxtrader]

defintely the correct tought process on the flop. its like ed miller says about pre-flop - raising increases your current equity, but cuts your post-flop expectation.

same consideration here. I like the raise for the sold reason that the pots is large. I wouldnt like it if it was smaller, in this case, simple as that - the extra K and Q outs you gain on average with this raise is worth it in a 15SB pot, but not in a 6-9SB pot...

best,
stox.

[MrGo]

I don't like your turn check. It's very obvious (to me at least) you're on a flush draw by checking the turn. I've seen it too many times at Party. The 8 is a beautiful card to scare UTG+2 out of the hand. Not knowing how UTG plays, it's unlikely he has an 8. I think the turn is a must bet.

[Masquerade]

Yes it does give away youre on the flush draw, but youre going to have to improve anyway to win this pot. You cant even call a bet on river if you dont hit so I dont think that giving your hand away is so terrible here. Against one opponent, yes definitely bet, but against two or more I think just taking the free card is better.

[highlife]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes it does give away youre on the flush draw, but youre going to have to improve anyway to win this pot. You cant even call a bet on river if you dont hit so I dont think that giving your hand away is so terrible here. Against one opponent, yes definitely bet, but against two or more I think just taking the free card is better.

[/ QUOTE ]

have you considered the possibility of getting AK or AQ to fold? or even getting a tight opponent to fold a medium pocket pair to the paired board?

[Masquerade]

What hand with a 8 would a good player call a pre-flop raise there with though? [Apart from 88]

[ResidentParanoid]

[ QUOTE ]
What hand with a 8 would a good player call a pre-flop raise there with though?

[/ QUOTE ]

When did good players enter the scenario?

[JeffO]

UTG+2 Had A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and UTG had J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for a flush. There was no better card that could have hit on the river for me.

I probably bet this turn if we're heads up but with UTG calling two cold on the flop raise I didn't think he was going anywhere for 1 BB on the turn. He either was on a flush draw, had a medium pocket pair or worse yet stayed with something like A8s and was hoping to get a check raise in on the turn.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's where I'm not sure about my play. As you can see I raised and drove out 3 of the remaining 5 players and possibly cleaned up a couple of outs. Anyone just call here as to not drive out customers?



[/ QUOTE ]

which outs did u clean?

likely none. unless somebody had K4, Q4, K3, Q3, or AQ, AK, and folded.

however raising if fine for the free card, but sometimes u might not want to take it, cause your bet on the turn would have ACTUALLY cleaned you some outs if anyone of the two opponents folded.

personally i like calling slightly better, though i don't really hate raising.

Kenny

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
something like A8s and was hoping to get a check raise in on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's a very rare move, even on party.