can anyone answer - O8 as compared to Stud HiLo

[bodie]

Does anyone know if there is a lot of similarity between Stud HiLo and the hands you look for in O8? I'm wondering if the low requirements are the same.

[Nick_Foxx]

not sure what your question means, but if you are talking about starting requirements, the answer is no

in the majority of situations in stud/8, you will see 4th street if you start with any 3 unpaired cards 8 or below... obv this isnt true in o/8

mike

[bodie]

thanks for the answer Mike. I guess I'm asking how "easy" it would be to play stud/8 (I've never played it) when I usually play O8. I'm familiar with the starting low requirements in O8 and the rhythm of the flop, turn, etc. I'm curious about the differences.

[hurlyburly]

I'm taking a break from holdem and working on learning both of these games. I think that O8 is easier but stud h/l is more fun.

My experience is on the 15+1 Turbo sit-and-gos on pokerstars, so my stud opening hand req's are pretty tight at 3 to the straight flush or wheel and jacks or better hidden or kings or aces split. Even then if I don't have a made hand by 5th street I'm usually folding. I don't know how this would work in a ring format, but it works well in the tourny where blinds increase extremely fast and anyone still in on 5th street will continue to pay to the last card.

[Nick_Foxx]

honestly based on my experience (which is all at low limits - 5/10 with full kill at omaha/8 and 2-10 at stud/8) the games don't play similarly in the slightest - in omaha, usually you stay in for the low end with some combination of ace-deuce, ace-trey, or deuce-trey and you basically draw to nothing but the nuts - stud/8 requires much greater flexibility and skill... but it's also much more rewarding a game to play and is definitely worth learning - there is a lot more decision-making involved than omaha which i feel at low limits is quite robotic... i don't like to play on auto-pilot


mike

[bodie]

It really does look like fun. I was playing yesterday on a "fun" game online and it was very different. Not having the shared cards is a huge difference, but really fun. I thought of what you guys had said regarding hands.....

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I'm asking how "easy" it would be to play stud/8 (I've never played it) when I usually play O8.

[/ QUOTE ]

bodie - It's like any other poker game - easy to play but, depending on your opponents, not always easy to win.

People seem to have less trouble understanding the game than Omaha-8. You get dealt seven cards and use any five of them to make your best hand. It's like Omaha in that you may either use the same set of cards for both high and low or you may use different a different set of cards for high than for low.

Like Omaha-8 there's an eight or better requirement for low. Like Omaha-8, you should want to scoop. A wheel is the best possible low, just like in Omaha-8.

Otherwise the two games are quite different. Have you ever played seven card stud? Seven-stud-8 is dealt and bet the same, but at the showdown - if there is a qualifying low hand, then the high hand splits with the best low hand.

The game is not dealt much in Los Angeles area casinos, except for tournaments. I'm not sure why. Seven stud high only is commonly dealt, but not seven stud high/low. The only times I've ever played stud-8 in ring games have been at ESCARGO or BARGE, and on those occasions the game was dealt as part of a series of games (HORSE). (The E in HORSE stands for seven-stud-eight).

Seven-stud-eight is a good game. You'd probably like it. I don't think it's a better game than Omaha-8, my personal favorite, but I evidently don't play Omaha-8 like Nick.

(Nick wrote "....in omaha, usually you stay in for the low end with some combination of ace-deuce, ace-trey, or deuce-trey and you basically draw to nothing but the nuts"). That's not how I play the game, although what Nick writes has some elements of truth and does not seem bad strategy for a beginner.

Years ago people played seven stud high/low without an eight qualifier for low, and with a declare. (And people still play seven stud high/low that way in private games here and there). Played with no qualifier and a declare, seven stud high/low is quite a different game, and the general advice is to play for low and hope you also end up with the best high hand. But the eight qualifier makes that strategy obsolete.

Seven stud lowball is called "razz." My understanding is that good starting hands for razz are not necessarily good starting hands for seven stud-8. (Therefore I disagree with what part of what Nick has written in this thread). However, I don't play either of these games much so I can't offer you very good first hand advice on how to play them.

I advise you to read Ray Zee's book on split poker before you play the game seriously. In it he gives excellent advice. The first half of the book is about seven stud-8 and the second half of the book is about Omaha-8.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[Nick_Foxx]

hi buzz, i've only played low limit omaha/8 so our playing experiences i'm sure are quite different... i've just found that the elements that make poker enjoyable for me (not necessarily for anyone else) exist to a lesser degree in o/8 than they do in stud/8 or lowball (single and triple), which are my 2 favorite games [btw, i'm not even saying i play these well, but these are the 2 games i enjoy playing the most]

in low-limit o/8, i usually end up playing extremely loose pre-flop (i'll definitely see at least 35-45% of the flops in a typical session) and play really tight after the flop... this usually ends up being enough to make money at these limits... problem is, i find very few occurrences where my thinking isn't on auto-pilot... there are very few times i ask myself "hmmm what should i do here?" where all 3 possibilities (call/raise/fold) have their merits... whereas in stud/8 i come to these decision points much more often...

as for the razz hands in stud/8... like i've said i've never paid more than $40 to get a card in stud/8 ($10 capped), so i can't really talk about the higher limits... i know ray zee mentions playing razz hands like 2-7-8 quite cautiously if at all... but at low limits, i think these hands are eminently playable, oftentimes because you have people in the pot starting even worse than you... i see a lot of people taking 4th street with hands like a-2-j , etc.

mike

[bodie]

Buzz,
As always, thank you for your thoughtful and detailed reply. I've only played stud poker and stud hi/lo online in fun games so far. There is a live tournament Wednesdays at Hawaiian Gardens casino in Orange County and I was thinking of going for the fun of it - it's only a $25.00 buy-in - sort of idiotic since I've never really played it, but I can't lose more than $25.00 so I thought it might be fun. Plus I've never been there and I'm curious to see what it's like and all the games they have.
O8 is also my favorite game so far, and the one I'm putting the most energy into learning and playing. I really only play live games and fun games online. So far I haven't played any real money games online.....I get bored easily waiting for people to act, unlike live games where you can watch everyone.
Anyway, it seems really important to play very tightly when choosing your starting hand in stud hi/lo, but it's also different since each player has their "own" hand, it seems possible for the hands to change their value much more than when there's a community board - is this a correct perception?

[chaos]

One main difference between O/8 and stud/8 is there is a lot less quartering in stud/8. You either have the best low or you do not, rarely are there ties.

I tend to play stud/8 pretty tight preflop. I play it as part of a mid-limit rotation game where there is a round of stud/8. One reason for playing tight is that it is not my strongest game. I use Ray Zee's book as a guide. I try to stick to starting hands that have a chance to scoop. I am not fond of high only hands like big pairs other than Aces.